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Originally Posted by jwschang Quote: |
Originally Posted by RonBee A: Have you eaten lunch in the afternoon?
B: Yes, I have eaten lunch in the afternoon.
A: Have you eaten lunch at three?
B: Yes, I have eaten lunch at three.
A: Have you visited Dalian in July?
B: Yes, I have visited Dalian in July.  | Yes. We have been using it so. Trouble is, there ARE linguists and teachers who are teaching that we should say in answer:
B. Yes, I ate lunch in the afternoon.
B. Yes, I ate lunch at three.
B. Yes, I visited Dalian in July.
1. This is the matter that has got some people upset (never mind mentioning whoever), because it is or can be confusing.
2. The "rule" is not my view. I did some checking and found that that's what is being taught by SOME. I don't know if it's a majority or minority who subscribe to the "rule", or it's at the climatic state of a toss-up!!!!!
3. It seems the language has gone through "refinements" (for whatever reasons???). Without sounding disparaging, it appears that such refinements are the labour of love of purists.
4. I guess you and I grew up speaking quite a bit of unsound grammar in pure blissful ignorance!!!!
5. I'm more concerned with the practical side of things: With such differing views, what should we teach learners? And it could lead to a lot of angst in the poor serious-type of kid (not to mention even some adults).  |
I am afraid I might have already waded into water too deep for me. :wink:
It is true that sometimes the simple past and the past perfect can mean the same thing.
- A: Have you eaten lunch today?
B: Yes, I ate.
Or:
- A: Have you eaten lunch today?
B: Yes, I have eaten lunch.
I think few would argue that there is a real difference between the two.
As for those example sentences I posted, I thought it might be interesting to demonstrate that those "impossible" sentences are quite possible given the right circumstances. As someone once said, it is context that makes a sentence meaningful.
Let's briefly look at the questions and the revised answers.
A: Have you eaten lunch in the afternoon? (Any afternoon)
B: B. Yes, I ate lunch in the afternoon. (A particular afternoon--that day)
A: Have you eaten lunch at three? (Any day)
B. Yes, I ate lunch at three. (A particular day--that day)
A: Have you visited Dalian in July? (Any July)
B. Yes, I visited Dalian in July. (The most recent July)
Every answer is, in a sense, a response to a different question than was asked. It's kind of like when you ask a person, "How long have you been waiting here?" and he responds with "Since three o'clock." You are then left with trying to figure out what the answer to your question is. If you say to somebody, "Have you visited Paris in the springtime?" the expected response would be something like, "Yes. I visited Paris last spring as a matter of fact." If the person instead says, "I visited Paris in the spring" that is likely to put you a little off-balance, simply because it is so unexpected.
(I am now going to have to ponder for a while on whether that made any sense.)