Although or However?

RonBee · #2 (**permalink**) 15-Oct-2003, 03:12

Go here: http://www.usingenglish.com/forum/vi...hp?p=8893#8893

:wink:

#3 (**permalink**) 15-Oct-2003, 19:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by tdol

Why?

Synonyns in this position:

They still bought it, although, it was expensive.
They still bought it, however, it was expensive.

Synonyns in this position:

It was expensive. They still bought it, (al)though.
It was expensive. They still bought it, however.

Although it was expensive, they still bought it.
However it was expensive, they still bought it. ungrammy

Why

Math

Within a given sentence, the word 'although' can modify A or B

[although A] + B
A + [B although]

Within a given sentence, the word 'however' can modify B
A + [however + B]
A + [B however]

Hypothesis: Both 'although' and 'however' function as conjunctions, but 'however' functions in a way similar to that of a pronoun: it needs a referent. Placing 'however' before its referent produces a result kind of like:

? He's the guy I told you about, John. semantics

wherein the intended meaning is 'He' and 'John' are the same person (co-referent), but the order of the pronouns tells us that 'He' and 'John' are not the same person. The reason being that pronouns need their referents to come before them, so as they have something to anchor to, to refer to.

In that 'He' to refer to 'John', we need to place 'John' before
'He':

John Smith is his name. He's the guy I told you about.

It's that kind of distribution, I believe, that makes 'however' similar to a pronoun. That is, "However it was expensive, they still bought it" is ungrammy 'cause 'however' needs to come after A and before B:

A + [however + B] (wherein "A" is a referential sentence)

It's the order, not the semantics, per se, that's important.

In short, 'however' needs a referent. 'although' doesn't.

#4 (**permalink**) 15-Oct-2003, 19:14

I dunno why it posted me as 'guest'.

There's a typo:

synonyns [sic] should read as synonyms. Is that right? It's like 4 am here and me eyes are falling out.

By the way, since I be a guest, could I get some extra hand towels :D

Cas

RonBee · #5 (**permalink**) 15-Oct-2003, 22:27

Yes, it should be synonyms. Also, I don't think you can use altogether and however synonymously.

:)

Tdol · #6 (**permalink**) 16-Oct-2003, 16:42

Synonyns in this position:

They still bought it, although, it was expensive.
They still bought it, however, it was expensive.

They're not synonymous here to me. The second doesn't work, IMO, and I'd delete the second comma in the first.

Synonyns in this position:

It was expensive. They still bought it, (al)though.
It was expensive. They still bought it, however.

These wok, although I'd say that 'though' is the form to use in the first.

RonBee · #7 (**permalink**) 16-Oct-2003, 17:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by tdol

Synonyns in this position:

They still bought it, although, it was expensive.
They still bought it, however, it was expensive.

They're not synonymous here to me. The second doesn't work, IMO, and I'd delete the second comma in the first.

Synonyns in this position:

It was expensive. They still bought it, (al)though.
It was expensive. They still bought it, however.

These work, although I'd say that 'though' is the form to use in the first.

That's what I would have said, but I was too lazy.

:wink: