Shall

[SUDHKAMP]

Originally Posted by Raymott

Yes SUDH, some very good novels have come out of India, and many Indians have impeccable English.
However, I wouldn't divide the English-speaking world into the right-minded and educated who use "shall" and the ignorami who hate and despise it. The vast majority of people who don't use "shall" have no feelings for it one way or the other - it's just not in their dialect. I don't think this makes them necessarily wrong-minded. There is no Commandment from on High saying "Thou shalt use Shall".

I do agree with you on the point, but the matter is, why these 'natives' do not know the proper usage of English. It is just because their teachers have not taught them properly. I am commenting more on the system than the people. Perhaps these 'natives' are lagging behind in learning English because they are not having good 'native teachers' back home.

[Raymott]

Originally Posted by SUDHKAMP

I do agree with you on the point, but the matter is, why these 'natives' do not know the proper usage of English. It is just because their teachers have not taught them properly. I am commenting more on the system than the people. Perhaps these 'natives' are lagging behind in learning English because they are not having good 'native teachers' back home.

By "natives", I take it you mean the British or the English. You have to remember also that there are many strange dialects, accents, even syntactical variants that the less educated country people in England speak. This would have some effect on the linguistic competence of the entire population as a whole, whereas in places such as India and Australia, one standard variety of English was taught, and there was no linguistic interference from country yokels.

[SUDHKAMP]

Originally Posted by Raymott

By "natives", I take it you mean the British or the English. You have to remember also that there are many strange dialects, accents, even syntactical variants that the less educated country people in England speak. This would have some effect on the linguistic competence of the entire population as a whole, whereas in places such as India and Australia, one standard variety of English was taught, and there was no linguistic interference from country yokels.

Is that why the standard of English is very very high in India and Australia compared to the 'natives'. Also, my friends who have settled abroad and even those 'natives' I have come across, are mostly waiters in restaurant, taxi-drivers, wage workers etc., I mean to say you cannot expect a high standard English from such people. Whereas in India all those who know English have Medical Degrees(Doctors), Engineers, Lawyers, IT professionals, MBAs, Bank Employees, Insurance agents and officers etc. And they have a very conducive atmosphere to speak a real good standard English. That is why when you use "shall" in India, there are no illiterate or semi-literate to laugh upon the usage of such words. It is not a pompous usage in India. Perhaps other countries including "natives" have got to improve their standard of English. It is only through economic success that you can improve the standard of living, thinking, education and speech.

[Bust3rboi]

Originally Posted by MikeNewYork

Shalln't I?

I think the proper use of shall not is sha'nt . Correct me if im wrong :]

[bhaisahab]

I still use 'shall' otherwise than in questions. I have voted to say that it is mostly used only in questions, which I believe to be the case.

[bhaisahab]

Originally Posted by Bust3rboi

I think the proper use of shall not is sha'nt . Correct me if im wrong :]

Yes, you are almost right, it's 'shan't'.

[SUDHKAMP]

Originally Posted by bhaisahab

Yes, you are almost right, it's 'shan't'.

Bhaisahab, can you please give the reason for such usages like "shan't" and are not being pronounced "i'nt"(are'nt)!

[bhaisahab]

To the best of my knowledge aren't is pronounced 'are'nt' by some speakers (myself included) and 'arnt' by others. I honestly don't know why.

[soutter]

I shall not tolerate anyone telling me that shall can only be used in stative or interrogative sentences.
Shall I say that again (over to you T S Eliot!)?

[Arabi]

shall we go ?