# Sentence pattern confusion

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• 28-Mar-2013, 17:00
dgquander
Sentence pattern confusion
I am trying to determine if the following sentence is a S-V-DO-OC or not.

The officers elected the smartest teacher as president for the union.
• 29-Mar-2013, 06:29
Route21
Re: Sentence pattern confusion
Welcome to the forum.

What do you think and why?
If we know what your problem is, we would be better placed to provide an appropriate answer.

It looks like homework and we don't do your homework.

Regards
R21
• 29-Mar-2013, 10:23
Frank Antonson
Re: Sentence pattern confusion
There is an objective complement in that sentence, as in "The sun made the apples red."
• 29-Mar-2013, 10:39
5jj
Re: Sentence pattern confusion
Quote:

Originally Posted by Frank Antonson
There is an objective complement in that sentence, as in "The sun made the apples red."

That's fine for The officers elected the smartest teacher president for of the union.

Doesn't it make a difference if we put 'as' before 'president'.
• 29-Mar-2013, 16:10
Frank Antonson
Re: Sentence pattern confusion
Quote:

Originally Posted by 5jj
That's fine for The officers elected the smartest teacher president for of the union.

Doesn't it make a difference if we put 'as' before 'president'.

I don't think so. "To be" can often be inserted before an objective complement. I suppose that "as" can be also. You don't really need it.

I would call it a function word like "that" in "I think THAT I'm right".

What is an alternative?
• 29-Mar-2013, 18:11
5jj
Re: Sentence pattern confusion
Quote:

Originally Posted by Frank Antonson
I don't think so. "To be" can often be inserted before an objective complement.

"They elected him to be president:. What's the function of 'to be'?
Quote:

I suppose that "as" can be also. You don't really need it.
True, but as it's there, we can't ignore it.
Quote:

I would call it a function word like "that" in "I think THAT I'm right".

What is an alternative?
Well, it seems to me that 'as' functions here as a preposition. If it does (and that's only an 'if', then I think that president must be the object of the preposition, and therefore cannot be an object complement.
• 29-Mar-2013, 19:50
dgquander
Re: Sentence pattern confusion
Does "as" function as a preposition when followed by a noun? If it does, then "The officers elected the smartest teacher president of the union." is a S-V-DO sentence. I think I have figured it out with some good help.

Thank you.
• 29-Mar-2013, 20:38
5jj
Re: Sentence pattern confusion
Quote:

Originally Posted by dgquander
Does "as" function as a preposition when followed by a noun? If it does, then "The officers elected the smartest teacher president of the union." is a S-V-DO sentence. I think I have figured it out with some good help.

No. That one's S-V-DO-OC. I am pretty sure that Frank and I agree on that. I'll leave it to Frank to confirm that.

My problem is how those who favour this type of analysis deal with that sentence when 'president' is preceded by 'as', and I look forward to Frank's response. He and I have very different views about the value of some types of sentence analysis, but I think that our occasional clashes may help learners realise that there are few absolutes when it comes to analysing language.
• 29-Mar-2013, 21:00
Frank Antonson
Re: Sentence pattern confusion
"As" can certainly be a preposition. But, would the subsequent phrase be adverbial, modifying "elected" by answering "how"? I still think, not.

The concept of "function word" is almost like an additional part of speech. In German the difference between "dass" and "das" illustrates the use of a function word.

Another example is "if" in "I don't know if he will go" or "that" in "I don't know that he will go".

Of course, this is all Reed-Kellogg.

Frank
• 29-Mar-2013, 22:10
dgquander
Re: Sentence pattern confusion
So, if "that" and "as" can be excluded from the phrase without the sentence losing its meaning, then "The officers elected the smartest teacher as president of the union." and "The officers elected the smartest teacher president of the union." mean the same thing.

I did see the sentence "Kim works as a waitress." That sentence is S-V because the verb is intransitive and "as a waitress" is a prepositional phrase according to the example explanation. Now can you see why I am so confused about sentence structures?
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