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Thread: If I "were" OR "was" OR "am" you....

  1. #21
    PROESL is offline Key Member
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    Default Re: If I "were" OR "was" OR "am" you....

    Quote Originally Posted by albeit View Post
    Not particularly, but I am interested.
    So you admit it. You're interested, but you're not interesting. I knew all along you really weren't interesting, which is why it's best to end discussion with you.


  2. #22
    PROESL is offline Key Member
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    Default Re: If I "were" OR "was" OR "am" you....

    Quote Originally Posted by konungursvia View Post
    Pro made a good point about Spanish and Portuguese examples; but those two languages use their subjunctives in dozens of additional cases no one else does, not even Italian or French. Those could be translated as "If I might be you" or some similar thing.

    Similarly, with conditionals, the usual case in all IE languages is:

    "If I had a million dollars, I would sail to Cape Cod."

    The verb "had" here, in light of what the other IE languages do, can correctly be taken to be a past form, rather than any kind of subjunctive coincidentally spelt and spoken like the past.

    "Were" doesn't seem to fit, in my view, given it's a past tense form, and that past tense forms are ten-a-penny in conditional constructions in languages where it's as easy as Saskatoon pie to tell which is which, between the past forms and present conditionals.

    That's what I mean, if you follow.
    I follow what you mean, but I guess I've come to a different understanding of how to consider these points and think of them for, I guess, my own sort of practical purposes and formation of logic as applied to grammar in my view.

    Wanting to avoid the word "subjunctive", because it is rather cumbersome to bring up in class or a lesson, I would refer to "had" in "if I had ... I would ..." as a verb form that represents distant possibility. I would not call it "past" because it seems to be a contradiction in terms given that the sentence has a present time reference.

    If a student really and truly understands the word subjunctive, I could use that word to explain things. Otherwise, I speak of closer and more distant possibilities. But I can't see calling "if I had a million dollars, I would ...", the past. I think it makes things confusing for learners.



    Quote Originally Posted by konungursvia View Post
    Pro made a good point about Spanish and Portuguese examples; but those two languages use their subjunctives in dozens of additional cases no one else does, not even Italian or French. Those could be translated as "If I might be you" or some similar thing
    That's interesting. I never would have thought of relating it to "if I might be you", with or without considering Spanish and Portuguese. So French doesn't use a subjunctive for phrases such as "if I were you" or "if I had ..., I would"? When, and if, I get to it, maybe it'll be easier than I thought it would be. The fewer conjugations to memorize, the better.
    Last edited by PROESL; 26-Sep-2009 at 15:31.

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    Default Re: If I "were" OR "was" OR "am" you....

    Quote Originally Posted by PROESL View Post

    That's interesting. I never would have thought of relating it to "if I might be you", with or without considering Spanish and Portuguese. So French doesn't use a subjunctive for phrases such as "if I were you" or "if I had ..., I would"? When, and if, I get to it, maybe it'll be easier than I thought it would be. The fewer conjugations to memorize, the better.
    Correct, it uses the past imperfect, l'imparfait. For a condition, to introduce the conditional, it always uses it (100%).

    Si j'étais... If I was
    Si je pouvais.... If I could
    Si tu avais.... If you had
    Si nous voulions.... If we wanted

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    Default Re: If I "were" OR "was" OR "am" you....

    Quote Originally Posted by konungursvia View Post
    Correct, it uses the past imperfect, l'imparfait. For a condition, to introduce the conditional, it always uses it (100%).

    Si j'étais... If I was
    Si je pouvais.... If I could
    Si tu avais.... If you had
    Si nous voulions.... If we wanted
    That's good to know. (And then for a past unreal conditional something like "Si tu avais vu"?) Books like 501 French Verbs do show translations to English, but in my opinion do not do a very good job of clarifying what the verb conjugations actually mean and all the ways in which they can be used. Maybe I'll have to take a look at such books again, though it could be easier just to ask a teacher or a native speaker. I found out what certain verb conjugations really mean in Spanish and Portuguese by asking native speakers of Spanish and Portuguese.

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