Comment on this sentence

[xpert]

tense simplification

Pardon me, but isn't that dumbing down? There is a reason why both are possible. That's why I suggested this should be clarified.

Please also see http://www.usingenglish.com/forum/as...ould-have.html

Because they are in indicative mood

Is this the reason?

[konungursvia]

Would you please tell me whether the following sentence is correct or not?
Also, please tell me why?

- By the time Alan had finished work, it was very late.

You know that " By the time " must be followed by
past simple but here it's followed by past perfect. So, I think it's wrong and
should be as follows:

By the time Alan finished work , it had been very late

No, "it was very late" has an imperfect aspect, and is correct, because it's stative.

[philo2009]

when/why would you use:
By the time Alan finished work ..."
and
"By the time Alan had finished work..."

With most verbs, there would be a clear semantic difference between perfective and imperfective forms revolving around the inception/execution of the action (imperfective) versus its conclusion/finished state (perfective).

The subordinate clause of

By the time I wrote the letter, I was feeling really angry.

, for example, clearly differs in terms of temporal reference from that of

By the time I had written the letter, I was beginning to feel much better.

In the case, however, of verbs which themselves denote inception or conclusion (start, begin, finish, etc.), the difference tends to become unimportant: there is little real semantic gain in specifying, by means of 'had finished', that we refer to the completion of the act of finishing, making the formally more complex compound tense redundant (albeit still structurally possible) in this case.

There is similarly no substantial difference between

By the time I started work,..

and

By the time I had started work,...

[xpert]

Excalibur!

Are your there?

Do you have any addition?