Forum newsfeeds
Forum Newsfeeds


Sites for Teachers

Sites for Teachers


Go Back   UsingEnglish.com ESL Forum > Learning English > Ask a Teacher

Notices

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1 (permalink)  
Old 10-Nov-2003, 09:20
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Country: armenia
Posts: 876
Current Location: france
First Language: armenian
Member Type: Academic
Thanks: 103
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
navi tasan
Default any

1-He can't see anybody he likes.
2-He can't buy any book he wants.

Aren't these sentences ambiguous:
1a-He can see nobody he likes.
1b-He can't see everybody he likes.

1a-He can buy no book he likes.
1b-He can't buy every book he likes.
Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
  #2 (permalink)  
Old 10-Nov-2003, 10:48
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Posts: 429
Thanks: 0
Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post
whl626 is an unknown quantity at this point
Default

I think all these sentences sound just right.
Reply With Quote
  #3 (permalink)  
Old 11-Nov-2003, 15:30
RonBee's Avatar
Moderator
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Country: USA
Posts: 13,536
Current Location: North Carolina
First Language: English
Member Type: Other
Thanks: 73
Thanked 896 Times in 801 Posts
RonBee is a splendid one to beholdRonBee is a splendid one to beholdRonBee is a splendid one to beholdRonBee is a splendid one to beholdRonBee is a splendid one to beholdRonBee is a splendid one to beholdRonBee is a splendid one to behold
Default Re: any

Unfortunately, they are not all English constructions.

Quote:
1-He can't see anybody he likes.
Absent context, that requires some clarification. Does it mean that person is not allowed (permitted) to see the people he likes or does it mean he is somehow unable to see the people he likes? Does it mean he is not permitted to talk to the people he wants to talk to? Or does it mean he is not allowed to talk to the people he wants to talk to?

Quote:
2-He can't buy any book he wants.
That also is somewhat ambiguous. Does it mean he is unable to buy any book he wants to buy? Does it mean he is not allowed to buy any book he wants to buy? Is he permitted to buy books he doesn't want? :wink:

Quote:
Aren't these sentences ambiguous:
1a-He can see nobody he likes.
1b-He can't see everybody he likes.
Does the first sentence mean that he is not allowed to see the people he likes or that he is unable to see the people he likes. Is he permitted to see people he doesn't like? :wink:

Does the second sentence mean that he can (is allowed to) see some of the people he likes but not all of the people he likes or that he cannot (is not allowed to) see any of the people he likes? Or does it mean that he can (is able to) see some of the people he likes but not all of the people he likes or that he cannot (is not able to) see any of the people he likes?

Yes, I think they are ambiguous. :wink:

Quote:
1a-He can buy no book he likes.
1b-He can't buy every book he likes.
Can he buy books he doesn't like? Can he buy some of the books he likes? (Etc., etc.) :wink:

Absent context, those sentences are quite ambiguous.

:)

[Edited for spelling.]
__________________
~R
Reply With Quote
  #4 (permalink)  
Old 12-Nov-2003, 09:55
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Country: armenia
Posts: 876
Current Location: france
First Language: armenian
Member Type: Academic
Thanks: 103
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
navi tasan
Default

Thanks RonBee.
This was a rather sobering reply. Indeed without context there is ambiguity as to the meaning of "can". Does it mean "being allowed" or "being able". I hadn't even thought of that. I was thinking about the ambiguity in the meaning of "any" (a very hard word to use properly for at least some non-native speakers).

I can't trust anybody who comes in through that door.
I can't trust just anybody who comes in through that door.
I can trust nobody who comes in through that door.

But, I think you have made your point. Without context even "I" is ambiguous!!
Reply With Quote
  #5 (permalink)  
Old 12-Nov-2003, 18:49
RonBee's Avatar
Moderator
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Country: USA
Posts: 13,536
Current Location: North Carolina
First Language: English
Member Type: Other
Thanks: 73
Thanked 896 Times in 801 Posts
RonBee is a splendid one to beholdRonBee is a splendid one to beholdRonBee is a splendid one to beholdRonBee is a splendid one to beholdRonBee is a splendid one to beholdRonBee is a splendid one to beholdRonBee is a splendid one to behold
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by navi tasan
Thanks RonBee.
This was a rather sobering reply. Indeed without context there is ambiguity as to the meaning of "can". Does it mean "being allowed" or "being able". I hadn't even thought of that. I was thinking about the ambiguity in the meaning of "any" (a very hard word to use properly for at least some non-native speakers).
I really wasn't looking at any particular word but at the entire sentence. In any case, you have given me the opportunity to talk about any.
  • any

    The word any includes everything -- everything, that is, in the category it is being used to modify. If a mother says to her child, "You can't have any candy" the word "any" includes all candy everywhere. The sentence could be rephrased as, "There are no candies you may have" or "All candies are denied to you." The words "no" in the first sentence and "all" in the second sentence are meaningful because "any" has "all" embodied in it. If that mother says to her child, "You can't have any eggs" she is saying that there is no egg anywhere in the universe that he may have. Of course, she is probably not thinking that at the time.

    If somebody says, "You can't have any books" he is saying, "There is not one book you may have." Practically speaking, however, he is probably saying, "You can't have any of my books."

    You can rephrase any sentence with "any" using either "no" or "all". If that mother tells her child, "You've had enough to eat. You can't have any more" she is saying there is no food he may have and that all foods are being denied to him. Practically speaking, of course, she is saying she isn't going to give him any more. In sum, if you are not going to give somebody any of something that means you are going to give him none of it.

Is there any more that you want to know about "any"?

Quote:
Originally Posted by navi tasan
I can't trust anybody who comes in through that door.
I can't trust just anybody who comes in through that door.
I can trust nobody who comes in through that door.
The first and last sentences mean the same thing. I can't trust anybody means the same as I can trust nobody. The second sentence means the person can trust some people but not all people. I can't trust just anybody means the same as I can't trust everybody. The just modifies anybody to make it mean some. In other words, I can't trust just anybody means I can trust some people but not all.

Quote:
Originally Posted by navi tasan
But, I think you have made your point. Without context even "I" is ambiguous!!
I don't know if I'd go that far, but I definitely agree with your premise. Just as context gives a word its meaning, context gives a sentence its meaning.

:)
__________________
~R
Reply With Quote
  #6 (permalink)  
Old 13-Nov-2003, 08:38
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Country: armenia
Posts: 876
Current Location: france
First Language: armenian
Member Type: Academic
Thanks: 103
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
navi tasan
Default

Thanks a lot for this long and detailed reply. I finally got it! I do think the tI am not the only person to have difficulties with this "any" thing. The "just" really changes everything, but when teachers talk about "any", they forget to mention that "just any" practically means "every" and "any" practically means "no".
Reply With Quote
  #7 (permalink)  
Old 13-Nov-2003, 14:44
RonBee's Avatar
Moderator
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Country: USA
Posts: 13,536
Current Location: North Carolina
First Language: English
Member Type: Other
Thanks: 73
Thanked 896 Times in 801 Posts
RonBee is a splendid one to beholdRonBee is a splendid one to beholdRonBee is a splendid one to beholdRonBee is a splendid one to beholdRonBee is a splendid one to beholdRonBee is a splendid one to beholdRonBee is a splendid one to behold
Default

You're welcome. I'm glad you found my reply helpful. I hope I can continue to be of help.

:D
__________________
~R
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


New To Site? Need Help?

All times are GMT. The time now is 23:22.


vBulletin, Copyright ©2000 - 2008, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.2.0
Copyright © 2002 - 2008 UsingEnglish.com