by the time

[MrPedantic]

Hello Hela

Yes, you can do that:

"By the time John arrives, we'll have had our meeting; so we'll know what to tell him."

MrP

[hela]

Thanks MrP, but isn't there a possibility to add another clause to your sentence above whose verb would be in a tense other than the future?

[MrPedantic]

Hello Hela

Yes, I think so, e.g.

1. "By the time John arrives, we'll have had our meeting; so we'll know what to tell him, even though Bill said we ought to wait until next Friday's meeting, when we'll have learned what the new pay structure is going to be..."

I expect you could add clauses endlessly, in different tenses, till you ran out of conjunctions!

MrP

[hela]

Thanks MrP

[curious]

Hi, Mr P. I think Hela wants to ask you whether it is possible to use any tenses other than "future continuous" or "future perfect" in the main clause.
Let me try:

Present:
*1- By the time he arrives, we will have a meeting.
2- By the time he arrives, we will be having a meeting.
3- By the time he arrives, we will have had a meeting.

Past:
4- By the time he arrived, we were having a meeting.
5- By the time he arrived, we had already had a meeting.
*6- By the time we'd walked five miles, he was exhausted.

I can't think of any other sequence for the time being and I am not sure about 1 and I think it is also possible to use was, were and had in the main clause. Is it possible to use other tenses than simple present or simple past in the subordinate clause? By the way what does 6 mean? I find it hard to show it on the time line. Was he exhausted after or before we'd walked five miles? It was taken from Quirk. Thanks.

[Tdol]

6- When we reached that point, his exhaustion had become apparent, but it's a creeping process.

[hela]

Hello everyone,

But is #1 correct ??

*1- By the time he arrives, we will have a meeting.

And what about these :

2) By the time he comes we will know the answer.
3) By the time she has been on her diet for two weeks we will see a difference.

I would be grateful if I could have an answer soon.
Hela

[MrPedantic]

Originally Posted by curious

Hi, Mr P. I think Hela wants to ask you whether it is possible to use any tenses other than "future continuous" or "future perfect" in the main clause.

Thanks, Curious – you're right, I had misunderstood!

See you,
MrP

PS: I think I would accept your #6; it seems quite idiomatic to me, with the sense tdol gives it!

[MrPedantic]

Hello Hela

I don't think #1 is possible; at least, I can't think of a context for it.

2) By the time he comes we will know the answer.

— This seems ok to me.

3) By the time she has been on her diet for two weeks we will see a difference.

— This seems ok to me too, at the moment; but sometimes things look different in the morning!

I think the difference from Curious's #1 lies in the fact that they relate to a mental state (knowing, perceiving), rather than an action.

See you,
MrP

[curious]

Thank you Mr P and tdol for your illuminating answers. I've come across these sentences on the net.

A- By the time Tom notices the doorbell, it has already rung three times.

B- By the time the Senator finishes (present: habitual action) his speech, the audience has lost (present perfect) interest.

C- After everyone has finished (present perfect) the main course, we offer (present: habitual action) our guests dessert.


D- Long before the sun rises (present: habitual action), the birds have arrived (present perfect) at the feeder.


Is it usual to use time conjunction//simple present//present perfect in English? Or is it just a matter of narration?