by the time

[hela]

Dear teachers,

I understand the use of the perfect aspect with "by the time" but I don't understand the use of the simple form of the verb. Would you please explain that to me and tell me what the following sentences mean if they are correct?

1) By the time we got to Woodstock the plans were in place.

2) I hope there is a decision by the time my daughter starts grade school.

3) By the time the fog lifts, the morning is half over.

4) By the time the troops arrive, the war is in full swing.

Thank you in advance and all the best,
Hela

[Tdol]

1 Past
2 Future
3 & 4 both are using the present for a narrative, but the idea is in the past.

[Casiopea]

Curious, am I too late to join in?

Originally Posted by curious

By the time he ----, we ---- a meeting.

A) arrived / had
B) has arrived / will have
C) arrives / will be having
D) arrives / are having
E) arrives / have had

which one is correct?

Choice C) is my pick.

Choice A) is out. "arrived" is simple past as is "had". One should happen before the other;e.g., we had had our meeting.

Choice B) is out. "has arrived" expresses recently, now, whereas "By the time" expresses a future event.

Choice D) is out. "are having" expresses the present, and "By the time ... arrives" the future.

Choice E) is out. "have had a meeting" has two strikes against it. (1) "have had" expresses just, recently, now it's finished; (2) "a meeting". Neither connects "By the time he arrives (future)" with the main clause.

All the best.

[MrPedantic]

That's interesting, Cas. I find I can read D and E as examples of a narrative in the historic present. Does that work for you?

MrP

[MrPedantic]

Hello Curious

A- By the time Tom notices the doorbell, it has already rung three times.

— Yes, fine.

B- By the time the Senator finishes (present: habitual action) his speech, the audience has lost (present perfect) interest.

— This could be the habitual present, if the context suggests it; but I'd be more inclined to take it as the "historic present", as it stands.

C- After everyone has finished (present perfect) the main course, we offer (present: habitual action) our guests dessert.

— As #2.

D- Long before the sun rises (present: habitual action), the birds have arrived (present perfect) at the feeder.

— Again, this might be simply the use of the historic present; you might use it in the narration for a documentary, for instance.

MrP

[Casiopea]

Mr P, I tried, but I can't seem to bend these - like Bekham.

D) By the time he arrives, we *are having a meeting.
E) By the time he arrives, we *have had our meeting.

[hela]

Dear Casiopea,

Are my conclusiions correct?

1) By the time he arrives, we will have a meeting.
2) ............................ , we are going to have a meeting.
3) ............................ , we are having a meeting.
4) ............................ , we will be having a meeting.
5) ............................ , we have had a meeting.
6) ............................ , we will have had a meeting.

Same for the past:

7) By the time he arrived, we would have a meeting.
8) ............................ , we were going to have a meeting.
9) ............................ , we were having a meeting.
10) .......................... , we would be having a meeting.
11) .......................... , we had had a meeting.
12) .......................... , we would have had a meeting. or ?

Is that all ? Or are there other possibilities ???

See you soon... I hope
Hela

[hela]

I thought about another combination, which I think can work:

By the time you arrive I'll be dead.

and this is : simple present ---> simple future!

Have you got better examples to illustrate that combination?

Look forward to your answers,
Hela

[hela]

I thought about another combination, which I think can work:

1) By the time you arrive, I'll be dead.

construction : simple present ---> simple future!

2) By the time you arrived, I was dead.
(and now I can everything you do from up above )

construction : simple past ---> simple past!

Have you got any better examples to illustrate my point?
Look forward to your answers,
Hela

[MrPedantic]

Originally Posted by Casiopea

Mr P, I tried, but I can't seem to bend these - like Bekham.
D) By the time he arrives, we *are having a meeting.
E) By the time he arrives, we *have had our meeting.

Intriguing. They would both work for me; in a narrative in the present tense, for instance:

1. MrQ is late again. By the time he arrives, we have had our meeting and retired to the bar...

I wonder whether it's a BrE/AmE difference.

What about in ordinary past tense narrative - does it seem strange to you there too, e.g.

2. The ordinary world outside slid into his mind, and by the time he was dressed he was an English gentleman again.

MrP