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  1. #11
    dihen is offline Member
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    Default Re: "that" or "which" for "in which" and else?

    Quote Originally Posted by dihen
    What do you think of this one, ungrammatical or awkward?
    `
    "in English, which adjectives precede the noun" ('which' used as a relative pronoun)
    Quote Originally Posted by Casiopea
    I can't tell, dihen. I need more context. What's the complete sentence?
    I'll use a different sentence. :
    `
    "Unlike [in English, which] adjectives come before the noun, in French, adjectives generally come after the noun." (originally "where")
    `
    ---------------------
    2a. the degree to which
    2b. the degree that <undecided; context would help>
    Here's a longer sentence.
    `
    "Aside from the southern block of Texas and New Mexico, there is no geographical pattern in the extent that patriotic songs are taught in different states." (originally "to which", from "http://www.neflin.org/marilyn/folksongsurvey/staterank.doc")
    `
    -----------------
    2a. the degree to which
    2b. the degree that <undecided; context would help>
    I'll use a different sentence.
    `
    "The phases designate both the degree that the Moon is illuminated and the geometric appearance of the illuminated part." (originally "to which", from "http://aa.usno.navy.mil/faq/docs/moon_phases.html")
    Last edited by dihen; 15-Jun-2006 at 16:25.

  2. #12
    Casiopea's Avatar
    Casiopea is offline VIP Member
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    Default Re: "that" or "which" for "in which" and else?

    Here are my speaker judgements. (Please note, I speak a North American dialect of English. ) You'll need to ask more speakers.

    EX: Unlike in English, which adjectives come before the noun, in French, adjectives generally come after the noun. <ungrammatical>

    EX: Aside from the southern block of Texas and New Mexico, there is no geographical pattern in the extent that patriotic songs are taught in different states. <awkard>

    EX: The phases designate both the degree that the Moon is illuminated and the geometric appearance of the illuminated part. <awkward, but more acceptable than the one above>

  3. #13
    dihen is offline Member
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    Default Re: "that" or "which" for "in which" and else?

    I remember the day when we first met.
    `
    There was a very hot summer the year when he was born.
    `
    Tell me (the reason) why you were late home.
    Those three can also omit the relative word, can they?
    `
    "I remember the day we first met." (acceptable?)
    "I remember the day we first met on." (ungrammatical?)
    "I remember the day that we first met." (ungrammatical?)
    "I remember the day that we first met on." (ungrammatical?)
    `
    "There was a very hot summer the year he was born." (acceptable?)
    "There was a very hot summer the year he was born on." (ungrammatical?)
    "There was a very hot summer the year that he was born." (ungrammatical?)
    "There was a very hot summer the year that he was born on." (ungrammatical?)
    `
    "Tell me the reason you were late home." (acceptable?)
    "Tell me the reason you were late home for." (ungrammatical?)
    "Tell me the reason that you were late home." (awkward?)
    "Tell me the reason that you were late home for." (ungrammatical?)
    --------------------------
    `
    And here's another one:
    "The process that schools are designed differs depending on the circumstances surrounding its application" (originally "by which", from "http://curry.edschool.virginia.edu/class/edlp/800/papers/process/process.html")
    `
    By the way, it seems that there will be endless questions about those relative words...
    Last edited by dihen; 15-Jun-2006 at 17:03.

  4. #14
    Casiopea's Avatar
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    Default Re: "that" or "which" for "in which" and else?

    "I remember the day we first met."
    "I remember the day we first met on."
    "I remember the day that we first met."
    "I remember the day that we first met on."

    "There was a very hot summer the year he was born."
    "There was a very hot summer the year he was born on."
    "There was a very hot summer the year that he was born."
    "There was a very hot summer the year that he was born on."
    `
    "Tell me the reason you were late [getting] home."
    "Tell me the reason you were late home for."
    "Tell me the reason that you were late [getting] home."
    "Tell me the reason that you were late home for."

    "The process that schools are designed differs depending on the circumstances surrounding its application" (originally "by which")

    Quote Originally Posted by dihen
    By the way, it seems that there will be endless questions about those relative words...
    Well, I've helped enough, dihen. Good luck with your research.

  5. #15
    dihen is offline Member
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    Default Re: "that" or "which" for "that" and else?

    Quote Originally Posted by Casiopea
    "There was a very hot summer the year he was born."
    "There was a very hot summer the year he was born on."
    "There was a very hot summer the year that he was born."
    "There was a very hot summer the year that he was born on."
    Did I use the wrong preposition? Should I have used "in" instead?
    `
    "There was a very hot summer the year he was born in." (acceptable?)
    "There was a very hot summer the year that he was born in." (awkward?)
    `
    -------------------------
    Is it possible to use the "[preposition] which" form with the word "suggestion", as in? :
    `
    "the suggestion of which we should leave early" (awkward, isn't it?, unlike the other words that sound better with "[preposition] which")
    -------------
    Another question: do prescriptive grammarians usually prefer "[preposition] which" to "that"? Most likely they do! For non-restrictive relative clauses, it is incorrect to use "that" for "which", but even for restrictive relative clauses, they still prefer "which" to "that", even when no preposition is needed!, but there nevertheless are people who prefer "that" to "which", right?
    Last edited by dihen; 24-Jun-2006 at 05:21.

  6. #16
    dihen is offline Member
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    Default Re: "that" or "which" for "in which" and else?

    Are these grammatical?
    `
    "in a situation when you don't know what to do"
    "in a situation, when you don't know what to do"
    Last edited by dihen; 24-Jun-2006 at 05:35.

  7. #17
    dihen is offline Member
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    Default Re: "that" or "which" for "in which" and else?

    Please answer me.

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