Forum newsfeeds
Forum Newsfeeds


Sites for Teachers

Sites for Teachers


Go Back   UsingEnglish.com ESL Forum > Learning English > Ask a Teacher

Notices

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1 (permalink)  
Old 11-Sep-2006, 14:51
Newbie
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Country: Canada
Posts: 7
Current Location: Vancouver
First Language: Japanese
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
yukiko1437 is on a distinguished road
Default Is using THAT OK in these sentences???

A thief is a person who steals things.
A thief is a person THAT steals things.

The people who work in the office are very friendly.
The people THAT work in the office are very friendly.

I know using WHO is more usual, but do you think using THAT is gramatically correct???

Thanks for helping me with this! I really appreciate it.

Jen
Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
  #2 (permalink)  
Old 11-Sep-2006, 15:46
Key Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Country: Canada
Posts: 3,025
Current Location: Canada
First Language: English
Thanks: 4
Thanked 474 Times in 437 Posts
riverkid is a glorious beacon of lightriverkid is a glorious beacon of lightriverkid is a glorious beacon of lightriverkid is a glorious beacon of lightriverkid is a glorious beacon of light
Default Re: Is using THAT OK in these sentences???

Quote:
Originally Posted by yukiko1437 View Post
A thief is a person who steals things.
A thief is a person THAT steals things.
The people who work in the office are very friendly.
The people THAT work in the office are very friendly.
I know using WHO is more usual, but do you think using THAT is gramatically correct???
Thanks for helping me with this! I really appreciate it.
Jen
Yes, Jen, both 'who' and 'that' are fully grammatical when used as relative pronouns to describe people.

From the LGSWE;

In news and academic prose, 'who' is the overwhelming choice for selected human head nouns, eg. people, children, boys, students, etc.

However, "[i]n conversation, a different pattern is observed: that is much more common with human head nouns, almost as common as who.

[LGSWE - Table 8.6 & 8.7 - page 613]

Last edited by riverkid; 11-Sep-2006 at 17:40.
Reply With Quote
  #3 (permalink)  
Old 12-Sep-2006, 06:23
shuja87's Avatar
Newbie
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Country: United States
Posts: 16
Current Location: United States
First Language: English
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
shuja87 is on a distinguished road
Exclamation Re: Is using THAT OK in these sentences???

Yes, in spoken English, the use of 'that' is more common. However, some grammarians term the use of 'that' as informal for humans because, they say, for humans, the relative pronoun 'who' must used. Also, that the relative pronoun 'that' is reserved for non-humans. So to use 'that' instead of 'who' means to misuse a relative pronoun. For example:
A thief is a person that steals things.
A cat is an animal who chases mice.
Note the awkward feeling that emerges from the second sentence. So the use of 'that' instead of 'who' can, in a sense, be comparable, although 'who' is not commonly used instead of 'that.'
So to sum up, both are right, but sentences with 'who' are more 'formal' and those with 'that' are less 'formal.'
Reply With Quote
  #4 (permalink)  
Old 13-Sep-2006, 18:02
Key Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Country: Canada
Posts: 3,025
Current Location: Canada
First Language: English
Thanks: 4
Thanked 474 Times in 437 Posts
riverkid is a glorious beacon of lightriverkid is a glorious beacon of lightriverkid is a glorious beacon of lightriverkid is a glorious beacon of lightriverkid is a glorious beacon of light
Default Re: Is using THAT OK in these sentences???

That's simply the proof that has been offered to satisfy a prescription, Shuja. This illustrates how silly prescriptivism is. Even if it were rude, language has to allow for being rude because language must cover every conceivable situation.

Just because 'who' is more polite, it doesn't preclude the use of 'that'. 'that' isn't rude, it's just less polite.

That's like saying that we must always use 'could' because it's more polite than 'can' or 'will'. Not all social situations demand the most polite collocation.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Tags
using, these, sentences

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
can you check my grammar in these few sentences? bbmak Ask a Teacher 3 07-Jan-2008 17:56
should/would(in conditional sentences) bayan said Ask a Teacher 3 26-Dec-2006 20:21
Could you please explain the following two sentences to me? sky753 Ask a Teacher 2 08-Jun-2006 06:05
Example Sentences for English Words sonicstaars General Language Discussions 6 04-Jul-2005 23:49
What are loose sentences? Periodic sentences? RonBee General Language Discussions 6 30-Nov-2003 23:13


New To Site? Need Help?

All times are GMT. The time now is 05:46.


vBulletin, Copyright ©2000 - 2008, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.2.0 RC5
Copyright © 2002 - 2008 UsingEnglish.com