Porto or Oporto

[Seagull]

What's the correct way of referring to this Portuguese city: Porto or Oporto?
By the way, could anyone tell me, please, why you write Oporto?
I've been asked this question several times, and I simply don't know the answer!
Later, I´ll let you know about a joke I've heard about the origin of Oporto. Well, I think it's a joke, and not the real explanation....

Thanks for keeping in touch!
Manela R.

[curmudgeon]

Portugese call it 'Porto'. I have no idea why english speakers call it 'Oporto'

Tell me the joke.

[BobK]

Originally Posted by curmudgeon

Portugese call it 'Porto'. I have no idea why english speakers call it 'Oporto'
Tell me the joke.

The way English deals with articles in foreign place names is quite random. We say 'the Hague' but 'le Havre'. There's no rule-of-thumb you can use.

Great Britain and Portugal have long been allies, especially in the field of wine imports - especially from O[do you capitalize it in Pg?] Porto. I can only imagine the tradition of making it one word derives from a mis-reading of 'O PORTO' (perhaps stencilled in widely-spaced capitals on the side of a wine crate, or written in a ledger by a clerk who knows no Portuguese). For people who don't recognize the 'O' as a definite article, it's an easy mistake to make.

Yes, we're agog about the joke

b

[BobK]

Originally Posted by Manuela Rocha

What's the correct way of referring to this Portuguese city: Porto or Oporto?
...

I didn't answer Manuela's original question. We use either; I'd guess 'Oporto' is slightly more common - though Google disagrees seriously:

3,170,000 for Oporto
1,280,000 for "O Porto"
1,350,000 for "o Porto"
but
126,000,000 for Porto

But sites like the Portuguese tourist board will have aliases set up (all roads lead to Lisbon ), and I don't know how Google handles these. I attach a bunch of Portugal-related links, in case you feel like doing a bit more research.

b

[rewboss]

Originally Posted by BobK

I didn't answer Manuela's original question. We use either; I'd guess 'Oporto' is slightly more common - though Google disagrees seriously:
3,170,000 for Oporto
1,280,000 for "O Porto"
1,350,000 for "o Porto"
but
126,000,000 for Porto

The 126 million hits for "porto" will include all the hits for "O Porto" and "o Porto"; additionally, it will include all the references where "Porto" is not a reference to the city at all, including pages in Portuguese and any other language where "porto" is a word. I just googled for "Porto", and the first page included hits for "Universidada do Porto" (Oporto University), "FC Porto" (the football club) and a bakery in California. Plus we have references to:

Salir do Porto, Portugal
Porto Santo and Porto Moniz, Madeira
Vila do Porto, Madeira
Porto Seguro, Porto Velho, Porto Ferreira, Porto Alegre and Porto Feliz, Brazil
Porto-Novo, Benin
Porto, Italy
Porto-Torres and Porto Ottiolu, Sardinia
Porto-Vecchio, Corsica
Porto Carras and Porto Cheli, Greece
Georges de Porto-Riche, a French novelist
Jorge Porto Cuba, a Cuban artist
The Porto Rico Importing Co., New York

..and many more.

Google is a bit of a blunt instrument at times.

[curmudgeon]

I didn'tmention that FC Porto are a bunch of diving cheats did I? Perhaps I should have posted THATin the Soccer thread, But I do like Portugal. The people are friendly and the architecture and climate are wonderful.

[Seagull]

Well, what I said was a joke, isn't really a joke, at least for those not living in Portugal, because, as you know, there are certain "jokes" which are understood only by a few... I guess it's more a "saying" or a kind of explanation for the word Oporto. Well, it's said that, some time ago, when English people came to Porto because of the Porto wine cellars (which, as you may know, are on the other bank of Douro river, so they are not really in Porto but in V.Nova de Gaia city- did you know that!?) they heard the workers say: "Bou ó Porto", meaning "I'm going to Porto", when they should say, in correct Portuguese:" Vou ao Porto". But what the English heard actually was "...ó Porto", and then the word got into their vocabulary as Oporto. Of course this "saying", or joke must have been invented by someone living in the South of Portugal.... they are always making fun of Porto citizens' way of pronouncing words... they think(and I think it's true) we have a peculiar accent. Anyway, this is the furthest (can I say this??!) I know about the origin of the English word Oporto. I hope none of you gets too frustrated with "the joke". By the way, I was given this explanation by a student of mine! Weird, isn't it? We learn all our lives, isn't it?
Keep in touch

Manuela R. (now Seagull)

[Red5]

I just asked a couple of Portuguese friends of mine and the said both were used. However, they didn't know much about the origins.

[curmudgeon]

Originally Posted by Seagull

I guess it's more a "saying" or a kind of explanation (Here I would use 'legend' )for the word Oporto. which, as you may know, are on the other bank of Douro river, so they are not really in Porto but in V.Nova de Gaia city- did you know that!?) furthest (most, not furthest) (can I say this??!) No I didn't - we learn something new every day I know about the origin of the English word Oporto. We learn all our lives, D
Keep in touch

Manuela R. (now Seagull)

[Seagull]

Hi, Curmudgeon

Thanks for correcting my mistakes! I really appreciate that! (feel free, if youdon't mind) to correct any mistake in my posts or threads!

Keep in touch

Seagull