Can have + past participle, Please HELP HELP HELP Guys

[MikeNewYork]

Originally Posted by boothling

You can find examples of "could" being used as a past tense.

EG:

Can you think of an example? < this can only mean now - it can't mean "in the past". You can't say "can you think of an example yesterday?"

Could you think of an example? < this can refer to the past. (It might also be used as a polite way of saying "can", but it's the only way to refer to the past.)

I can't think of anything < there's no way this can refer to the past; it's present only.

I couldn't think of anything < can refer to the past.

I could have been there (correct)
I can have been there (incorrect)

I don't think that may, shall and will operate in the same way, and I don't want to get involved in a linguistic argument anyway - but there are your can/could sentences.

You have some good examples in there.

The discussion even transcends the presence of time examples. Everyone accepts that the different tenses can be used for times other than the time
in their titles. A "tense" is a structure, a form, that can have a variety of uses. Thus, could, would, might, and should are past tenses of can, will, may, and shall. Their uses are sometimes independent from their named tenses.

Some linguists talk about "remoteness" with regard to verb tenses. In that model, the past tense form is remote in terms of time. But some have expanded that to other areas. Thus, the past tense modal "might" is seen as more remote (less possible) than the present tense "may". With requests, the past tense modal "would' is seen as more remote (less direct) than the present tense modal "will". These are other ways in which modals exhibit tense.

[riverkid]

Still no examples.

[JSmiley]

for riverkid (in this context):

How easily can I think I could,
and if I were able,
could then I?
Would I?

If piognant words can make me blink
so for a moment I may stop, and think,
Could then I?
should then I?

Maybe so.

If I could, I would, and then I'd see
that I should, and would, if it could be
helpful.
Can you see?

[boothling]

Google search: "I would of" - 858,000 hits

Google search: "I can have been there" - 1 hit

Google search: "I could have been there" - 336,000 hits

[riverkid]

Originally Posted by boothling

Google search: "I would of" - 858,000 hits

Google search: "I can have been there" - 1 hit

Google search: "I could have been there" - 336,000 hits

Boothling,

Think for a second. How likely is it that a sentient person is going to say something like,

"I can have been there"

or even

"I can't have been there".

When you do a search for a context that makes sense, as the numerous examples, below, attest,

Results 1 - 10 of about 18,000 English pages for "I can't have been".

you can easily see that it is a very common for <can/can't> to be used to refer to the past.

It isn't as common as 'could' because 'could' is the normal neutral. Using <can/can't> is a more strident collocation so naturally it isn't going to be as common.

[Dandelion]

Originally Posted by boothling

Google search: "I would of" - 858,000 hits
Google search: "I can have been there" - 1 hit
Google search: "I could have been there" - 336,000 hits

The fact that you found 858,000 hits for "I would of" doesn't make it grammatically correct. It just shows that thousands of people don't know it should be written "I would have."

[MikeNewYork]

Originally Posted by Dandelion

The fact that you found 858,000 hits for "I would of" doesn't make it grammatically correct. It just shows that thousands of people don't know it should be written "I would have."

I agree. It is an error in most cases. However, a search for "I would of" will also catch "I would, of course," which is completely correct. Google has 195,000 of those.

[MikeNewYork]

Originally Posted by riverkid

Boothling,

Think for a second. How likely is it that a sentient person is going to say something like,

"I can have been there"

or even

"I can't have been there".

When you do a search for a context that makes sense, as the numerous examples, below, attest,

Results 1 - 10 of about 18,000 English pages for "I can't have been".

you can easily see that it is a very common for <can/can't> to be used to refer to the past.

It isn't as common as 'could' because 'could' is the normal neutral. Using <can/can't> is a more strident collocation so naturally it isn't going to be as common.

I think Boothling made a very good point.

Web Results 1 - 10 of about 355,000 for "I couldn't have been".

[riverkid]

Why am I not surprised.

[boothling]

Originally Posted by Dandelion

The fact that you found 858,000 hits for "I would of" doesn't make it grammatically correct. It just shows that thousands of people don't know it should be written "I would have."

This was my point. To spell it out: perhaps Google is not an infallible tool for checking grammar.

I could have been there (correct)
I can have been there (incorrect)

The second one isn't incorrect, Boothling though admittedly it sounds a bit odd. It sounds odd because the context isn't there.

The second one is incorrect. Unless you add more words to the sentence (eg, "there's no way I can have been there"), it is simply wrong.

The first example is correct as a sentence on its own. I believe that this might mean that "could" can be used as a past tense in situations where "can" cannot. Although I may be wrong - I'm not a linguist.