Forum newsfeeds
Forum Newsfeeds


Sites for Teachers

Sites for Teachers


Go Back   UsingEnglish.com ESL Forum > Learning English > Ask a Teacher

Notices

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1 (permalink)  
Old 24-Nov-2006, 13:21
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Country: Japan
Posts: 319
Current Location: Japan
First Language: Japanese
Thanks: 2
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Progress is on a distinguished road
Default considered

"Any person, while awaiting trail, is considered innocence until he or she has been declared guilty."

innocence should be inocent? But I googled and found concsidered innocence. After considered, an ajective should come, a noun shouldn't?
Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
  #2 (permalink)  
Old 24-Nov-2006, 14:02
BobK's Avatar
Moderator
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Country: England (South East)
Posts: 4,923
Current Location: England (South East)
First Language: English
Thanks: 33
Thanked 353 Times in 314 Posts
BobK is just really niceBobK is just really niceBobK is just really niceBobK is just really nice
Default Re: considered

You're right; those Google hits were either typos or non-native speakers.

There is a phrase 'presumed innocence'; there is also the phrase 'presumed innocent'. (And if two innocent people were involved they could - at the risk of great confusion - be referred to as 'the presumed innocents' ). All this might have caused the confusion that led to your Google hits.

b
Reply With Quote
  #3 (permalink)  
Old 24-Nov-2006, 14:35
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Country: Japan
Posts: 319
Current Location: Japan
First Language: Japanese
Thanks: 2
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Progress is on a distinguished road
Default Re: considered

Thanks Bobk, I feel "he is considered inoccent" simple and good, but is it correct to say that "he is cnosidered an innocent man?"
Reply With Quote
  #4 (permalink)  
Old 24-Nov-2006, 16:24
BobK's Avatar
Moderator
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Country: England (South East)
Posts: 4,923
Current Location: England (South East)
First Language: English
Thanks: 33
Thanked 353 Times in 314 Posts
BobK is just really niceBobK is just really niceBobK is just really niceBobK is just really nice
Default Re: considered

Either. Of the two, I'd slightly prefer 'he is considered an innocent man' - if you mean that people really think he hasn't done anything wrong. But if you mean that in a particular instance nothing has so far been proved against him, I'd prefer 'presumed innocent'; it's a collocation that's very widely used, with a legalistic meaning that isn't quite the same as 'considered an innocent man'.

b
Reply With Quote
  #5 (permalink)  
Old 24-Nov-2006, 23:29
MikeNewYork's Avatar
VIP Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Country: USA
Posts: 6,095
Current Location: New York
First Language: American English
Thanks: 0
Thanked 7 Times in 7 Posts
MikeNewYork is an unknown quantity at this point
Default Re: considered

Quote:
Originally Posted by Progress View Post
"Any person, while awaiting trail, is considered innocence until he or she has been declared guilty."

innocence should be inocent? But I googled and found concsidered innocence. After considered, an ajective should come, a noun shouldn't?
Some of those Google entires are errors, but some are correct. The verb "consider" can act like a linking verb, one that takes a predicate adjective or predicate nominative (noun), when it means "deemed to be".

When you say a man is considered innocent, you are linking the adjective "innocent" to "man".

In another sentence "Ignorance of the law is not considered innocence", the noun "innocence" is linked to the subject.

It all depends on what meaning is intended.
Reply With Quote
  #6 (permalink)  
Old 25-Nov-2006, 10:00
BobK's Avatar
Moderator
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Country: England (South East)
Posts: 4,923
Current Location: England (South East)
First Language: English
Thanks: 33
Thanked 353 Times in 314 Posts
BobK is just really niceBobK is just really niceBobK is just really niceBobK is just really nice
Default Re: considered

Quote:
Originally Posted by MikeNewYork View Post
Some of those Google entires are errors, but some are correct. The verb "consider" can act like a linking verb, one that takes a predicate adjective or predicate nominative (noun), when it means "deemed to be".

When you say a man is considered innocent, you are linking the adjective "innocent" to "man".

In another sentence "Ignorance of the law is not considered innocence", the noun "innocence" is linked to the subject.

It all depends on what meaning is intended.
- hadn't thought of that.

b
Reply With Quote
  #7 (permalink)  
Old 25-Nov-2006, 12:42
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Country: Japan
Posts: 319
Current Location: Japan
First Language: Japanese
Thanks: 2
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Progress is on a distinguished road
Default Re: considered

Thank you very much, Bobk and MikeNewYork.
Reply With Quote
  #8 (permalink)  
Old 25-Nov-2006, 21:22
MikeNewYork's Avatar
VIP Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Country: USA
Posts: 6,095
Current Location: New York
First Language: American English
Thanks: 0
Thanked 7 Times in 7 Posts
MikeNewYork is an unknown quantity at this point
Default Re: considered

Quote:
Originally Posted by BobK View Post
- hadn't thought of that.

b
You often come up with things I hadn't considered. That's why there are many people here.
Reply With Quote
  #9 (permalink)  
Old 25-Nov-2006, 21:23
MikeNewYork's Avatar
VIP Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Country: USA
Posts: 6,095
Current Location: New York
First Language: American English
Thanks: 0
Thanked 7 Times in 7 Posts
MikeNewYork is an unknown quantity at this point
Default Re: considered

Quote:
Originally Posted by Progress View Post
Thank you very much, Bobk and MikeNewYork.
You're welcome.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Tags
considered

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
to consider / to be considered Trex Ask a Teacher 1 09-Nov-2006 21:26
considered or considering chentianchi Ask a Teacher 2 23-Oct-2006 04:52
considered her to be, as, was Passionwagon Ask a Teacher 2 07-Sep-2006 19:40
considered sth or considered as sth zuzaj Ask a Teacher 0 19-Sep-2005 08:41
'They considered the profesor an authority" eurekateam Ask a Teacher 1 27-Jan-2005 13:45


New To Site? Need Help?

All times are GMT. The time now is 06:07.


vBulletin, Copyright ©2000 - 2008, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.2.0 RC5
Copyright © 2002 - 2008 UsingEnglish.com