Forum newsfeeds 
|  | | Notices | You are welcome to answer questions posted in the Ask a Teacher forum as long as your suggestions, help, and advice reflect a good understanding of the English language. If you are not a teacher, you will need to state that clearly at the top of your post. Please note, all posts are moderated by our in-house language experts, so make sure your suggestions, help, and advice house the kind of information an international language teacher would offer. If not, and your posts do not contribute to the topic in a positive way, they will be subject to deletion. | 
13-Dec-2006, 19:53
| | Newbie | | Join Date: Dec 2006 Country: usa
Posts: 1
Current Location: california First Language: english Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
| |  goose and gander change gender?
Hi,
I am interested in why there seems to be a gender shift in the meaning vs. the expression of the proverb: What's good for the goose is good for the gander." The general meaning is what is good for the male is good for the female. However, the order of the goose (female) and gander (male) is reversed in the proverb? |
13-Dec-2006, 21:06
| | Moderator | | Join Date: Feb 2005 Country: England
Posts: 2,126
Current Location: SE England First Language: British English Thanks: 2
Thanked 79 Times in 78 Posts
| | Re: goose and gander change gender?
Hello K.,
I'd always assumed the proverb was ambidirectional; but it would be interesting to see whether common usage tends towards the "what's good for the male is good for the female" meaning.
MrP |
13-Dec-2006, 21:41
| | Senior Member | | Join Date: Jul 2005 Country: Bremen - Germany
Posts: 1,109
Current Location: Germany First Language: English Thanks: 0
Thanked 14 Times in 14 Posts
| | Re: goose and gander change gender?
Quote:
Originally Posted by krakowski  Hi,
I am interested in why there seems to be a gender shift in the meaning vs. the expression of the proverb: What's good for the goose is good for the gander." The general meaning is what is good for the male is good for the female. However, the order of the goose (female) and gander (male) is reversed in the proverb? | Male is often put before female in Manglish spoken English: brothers and sisters - Dear Sir or Madam
The order in the proverb puts goose before gander because goose has a higher frequency than gander which some people even have not heard of. Still we have: Ladies and gentlemen
Last edited by Dr. Jamshid Ibrahim; 14-Dec-2006 at 06:55.
|
14-Dec-2006, 00:21
|  | Moderator | | Join Date: Mar 2006 Country: Scotland
Posts: 1,631
Current Location: England First Language: English Thanks: 0
Thanked 17 Times in 17 Posts
| | Re: goose and gander change gender?
Dr Jamshsid is right, the male always comes before the female- it's not right and it's not fair but that's the way it is (I Think you'll find it's that way in most languages and cultures.) I'm sure Ouisch will disagree but what can I say?  |
14-Dec-2006, 06:53
| | Senior Member | | Join Date: Jul 2005 Country: Bremen - Germany
Posts: 1,109
Current Location: Germany First Language: English Thanks: 0
Thanked 14 Times in 14 Posts
| | Re: goose and gander change gender?
Quote:
Originally Posted by curmudgeon Dr Jamshsid is right, the male always comes before the female- it's not right and it's not fair but that's the way it is (I Think you'll find it's that way in most languages and cultures.) I'm sure Ouisch will disagree but what can I say? | Yes, in Spanish for example you say:
Los padres both parents (literally the fathers)
Los hijos children (literally the boys)
I hope I wrote the Spanish words correctly. If not please forgive. |
14-Dec-2006, 08:17
|  | VIP Member | | Join Date: Nov 2002 Country: USA
Posts: 6,095
Current Location: New York First Language: American English Thanks: 0
Thanked 7 Times in 7 Posts
| | Re: goose and gander change gender?
Quote:
Originally Posted by krakowski Hi,
I am interested in why there seems to be a gender shift in the meaning vs. the expression of the proverb: What's good for the goose is good for the gander." The general meaning is what is good for the male is good for the female. However, the order of the goose (female) and gander (male) is reversed in the proverb? | In some cases, proverbs just get jumbled. There is "you can't have your cake and eat it (too)", which would be better as "you can't eat your cake and (still) have it".
Interestingly, this proverb seems to be losing its gender meaning. It is often used as a general statement about fairness. Gender aside, a goose and a gander are both birds. What's good for one bird is good for another. |
14-Dec-2006, 09:24
| | Senior Member | | Join Date: Jul 2005 Country: Bremen - Germany
Posts: 1,109
Current Location: Germany First Language: English Thanks: 0
Thanked 14 Times in 14 Posts
| | Re: goose and gander change gender?
Quote:
Originally Posted by MikeNewYork In some cases, proverbs just get jumbled. There is "you can't have your cake and eat it (too)", which would be better as "you can't eat your cake and (still) have it". | I wonder perhaps more logically "jumbled" if any but language defies logic (superior to logic and allows ambiguity). In the proverb mentioned have is put before eat I think because have as the second most important verb after BE has a very high frequency. It can even replace eat.
Last edited by Dr. Jamshid Ibrahim; 14-Dec-2006 at 09:46.
|
14-Dec-2006, 09:59
| | VIP Member | | Join Date: Nov 2002 Country: USA
Posts: 6,095
Current Location: New York First Language: American English Thanks: 0
Thanked 7 Times in 7 Posts
| | Re: goose and gander change gender?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr. Jamshid Ibrahim I wonder perhaps more logically "jumbled" if any but language defies logic (superior to logic and allows ambiguity). In the proverb mentioned have is put before eat I think because have as the second most important verb after BE has a very high frequency. It can even replace eat. | Well, it can't replace eat here. Then we'd have: you can't have your cake and have it.  |
14-Dec-2006, 15:46
|  | Moderator | | Join Date: Jul 2006 Country: England (South East)
Posts: 5,253
Current Location: England (South East) First Language: English Thanks: 52
Thanked 564 Times in 494 Posts
| | Re: goose and gander change gender?
Quote:
Originally Posted by curmudgeon Dr Jamshsid is right, the male always comes before the female- it's not right and it's not fair but that's the way it is (I Think you'll find it's that way in most languages and cultures.) I'm sure Ouisch will disagree but what can I say? | Gentlemen and ladies, I'd like to question that always.
b |
14-Dec-2006, 15:55
|  | Newbie | | Join Date: Dec 2006 Country: Germany
Posts: 1
Current Location: Aachen First Language: German Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
| | Re: goose and gander change gender?
Quote:
Originally Posted by krakowski Hi,
I am interested in why there seems to be a gender shift in the meaning vs. the expression of the proverb: What's good for the goose is good for the gander." The general meaning is what is good for the male is good for the female. However, the order of the goose (female) and gander (male) is reversed in the proverb? | Hi all there!
Sorry to disturb this thread! Is there any one able to give me help in introducing myself in the introduction thread? I'm searching all around in this thread but I can't find a possibility to enter my introduction! 
Sorry again but I'm confused.
Thanks | | Thread Tools | | | | Display Modes |  Linear Mode | 
Posting Rules
| You may post new threads You may not post replies You may not post attachments You may not edit your posts
HTML code is Off | | | All times are GMT. The time now is 03:09. | |
