sign of the times

[Delmobile]

Thank you so much, Bob K, for slicing the Gordian knot of prepositional subtlety.

ian2, you're there, but putting "which is a sign of the times" right after "messaging" (even though they are divided by a comma) makes it sound like the messaging itself is a sign of the times, while it is their effectiveness that is the point of the sentence.

"The fact that their most effective tool was cell phone short messaging is a sign of the times."


a

[RonBee]

In a sign of the times, their most effective tool to spread their message was cell phone short messaging.

It is my impression that the sign of the times is the use of cell phones. (Cell phones didn't even exist in the previous generation.)

~R

[ian2]

Thank you so much, Bob K, for slicing the Gordian knot of prepositional subtlety.

ian2, you're there, but putting "which is a sign of the times" right after "messaging" (even though they are divided by a comma) makes it sound like the messaging itself is a sign of the times, while it is their effectiveness that is the point of the sentence.

"The fact that their most effective tool was cell phone short messaging is a sign of the times."


a

You are right. But in my interpretation, "which" refers to the whole previous sentence rather than the messaging itself. So far as I know, the relative pronoun "which" can be used to refer to a whole main clause. Also I would not narrow "the sign of the times" to "effectiveness" only. How can "effectiveness" be a sign of the times. As Ronbee, the moderator, says, the "sign of the times" is the use of the cell phone. I kind of agree with that interpretation, as cell phone is a new thing, but "effectiveness" is timeless. right? My two cents. I have learned so much from so many. Thank you all.

[Delmobile]

You are right---"which" can introduce clauses that modify the entire sentence, or only part of it.

"He visited New Orleans last year, which was his first trip away from home."

"Last year he visited New Orleans, which he had always thought of as a sinful and Godforsaken city."

How can "effectiveness" be a sign of the times? If they'd tried using short messaging a few years before, when not so many people had cell phones, the technique, while still striking and innovative, might not have been their most effective tool, or even effective at all. That is how I saw the sentence, but as you point out RonBee sees it differently. And it's splitting hairs to argue over it anyway; the point the author is making (new technology has empowered grassroots citizen action!) is clear either way.

The important thing was the as/in conflict, which I think we have successfully dealt with, thanks to BobK.

I've learned a lot from this board too; I don't think I've ever spent so much time considering the power of the humble preposition.

[ian2]

You are right---"which" can introduce clauses that modify the entire sentence, or only part of it.

"He visited New Orleans last year, which was his first trip away from home."

"Last year he visited New Orleans, which he had always thought of as a sinful and Godforsaken city."

How can "effectiveness" be a sign of the times? If they'd tried using short messaging a few years before, when not so many people had cell phones, the technique, while still striking and innovative, might not have been their most effective tool, or even effective at all. That is how I saw the sentence, but as you point out RonBee sees it differently. And it's splitting hairs to argue over it anyway; the point the author is making (new technology has empowered grassroots citizen action!) is clear either way.

The important thing was the as/in conflict, which I think we have successfully dealt with, thanks to BobK.

I've learned a lot from this board too; I don't think I've ever spent so much time considering the power of the humble preposition.

I totally agree. In an age when money is always thought to be powerful by so many, the humble preposition is showing its power in the corner of a text. Long Live language!

Ian2