sentence structure

[blacknomi]

I quite enjoyed that movie,
(a)except those who kept smoking in the theater.
(b)except those who kept smoking during the movie.
(c)except those who kept smoking in the movie.
(d)except those who kept smoking while we were watching.



sabrina

[MikeNewYork]

Originally Posted by blacknomi

I quite enjoyed that movie,
(a)except those who kept smoking in the theater.
(b)except those who kept smoking during the movie.
(c)except those who kept smoking in the movie.
(d)except those who kept smoking while we were watching.



sabrina

They all need "for" after "except". C is a bit strange. It sounds as if the actors were smoking. :wink:

[blacknomi]

Originally Posted by MikeNewYork

They all need "for" after "except". C is a bit strange. It sounds as if the actors were smoking. :wink:

Question 1:
Is "except" a prep or conj here?

Question 2:
Which of the following is correct?
The museum is open daily except Monday(s).
The museum is open daily except for Monday(s).

Question 3:
I see "those who kept smoking during the movie" as a noun phrase, it should be alright if it is preceded by "except". I don't see the reasons to insert "for" after "except." What makes the differences?



sabrina

[Casiopea]

[quote="blacknomi"]

Originally Posted by MikeNewYork

They all need "for" after "except". C is a bit strange. It sounds as if the actors were smoking. :wink:

Question 1:
Is "except" a prep or conj here?

It's a preposition, and it functions to introduce a transition.

Question 2:
Which of the following is correct?
The museum is open daily except Monday(s).
The museum is open daily except for Monday(s).

Both are fine. 'on' has been omitted from the first sentence (i.e. 'on Monday' ~ 'on Mondays) but that's OK. It's still fine.

Question 3:
I see "those who kept smoking during the movie" as a noun phrase, it should be alright if it is preceded by "except". I don't see the reasons to insert "for" after "except." What makes the differences?

Yes. It's a noun phrase, headed by 'those', which is modified by 'who kept smoking...". The entire noun phrase functions as the object of the preposition 'expect for', which is a set phrase meaning, except for the fact that, the last part of which, 'for the fact that' is often omitted.

except = except for the fact that
except for = except for the fact that


All the best,

[blacknomi]

[quote="Casiopea"]

Originally Posted by blacknomi

It's a preposition, and it functions to introduce a transition.

Both are fine. 'on' has been omitted from the first sentence (i.e. 'on Monday' ~ 'on Mondays) but that's OK. It's still fine.

Yes. It's a noun phrase, headed by 'those', which is modified by 'who kept smoking...". The entire noun phrase functions as the object of the preposition 'expect for', which is a set phrase meaning, except for the fact that, the last part of which, 'for the fact that' is often omitted.

except = except for the fact that
except for = except for the fact that


All the best,

Cas, that's very impressive. You just made my day.

I still have a trivial question after reading your explanation.
except = A = except for, does it mean "except" equals to "except for" ?
Could there be any exception?


sabrina

[Casiopea]

Originally Posted by blacknomi

I still have a trivial question after reading your explanation.
except = A = except for, does it mean "except" equals to "except for" ?
Could there be any exception? sabrina

Originally Posted by Casiopea

except = except for the fact that
except for = except for the fact that

except is short for except for (the fact that).

Are there exceptions? Hmm, well, never say, "Never!". There probably are exceptions. None, though, have come to mind, yet.

All the best,

[blacknomi]

Originally Posted by Casiopea

except is short for except for (the fact that).

Are there exceptions? Hmm, well, never say, "Never!". There probably are exceptions. None, though, have come to mind, yet.

All the best,

Thank you, Cas.

[Casiopea]

Originally Posted by blacknomi

You're welcome. :D
Thank you, Cas.

[Daruma]

1.
We use "except (for)" after general statements, especially after generalising words like all, every, no, everything, anybody, nowhere, whole, etc.

- He ate everything on his plate except (for) the beans.
- He ate the whole meal, except (for) the beans.

2.
In other cases we usually use "except for", not "except". Compare:

- I've cleaned all the rooms except (for) the bathroom.
(Except is possible after "all".)
- I've cleaned the house except for the bathroom.
(NOT ... except the bathroom.)

- Nobody came except (for) John and Mary. (after "nobody")
- Except for John and Mary, nobody came. (before "nobody")

- You couldn't hear anything except (for) the noise of Louise typing.
- The house was quiet except for the noise of Louise typing.

3.
We use "except", not "except for", before prepositions and conjunctions.

- It's the same everywhere except in Scotland.
(NOT ... except for in Scotland.)

- He's good-looking except when he smiles.