have yet to do...

Dear teachers:

I have a question about a usage I've encountered recently. Could you read the following short passage first? It's about Jessica Lynch and Lynndie England.

"Lynch was lauded as a national hero; England has been lambasted as a national disgrace. While no one has yet to describe England as the anti-Christ they have come close. In the words of one of her neighbours, she is the 'anti-Jessica'."
(quoted from http://www.guardian.co.uk/comment/st...218457,00.html)

Now, what I'm curious about is the part "no one has yet to describe England as the anti-Christ".

I understand that "have yet to do..." means "haven't done...yet". If so, the above sentence can be paraphrased as: "no one hasn't described England as the anti-Christ yet", and it doesn't sound right, like double negation cases. The intended meaning seems to be: "no one has described England as the anti-Christ yet."

How do sentences like the above sound to you? Is this supposed to be a correct usage?

Thank you in advance for your help.

CuriousT

Originally Posted by CuriousT

Dear teachers:

I have a question about a usage I've encountered recently. Could you read the following short passage first? It's about Jessica Lynch and Lynndie England.

"Lynch was lauded as a national hero; England has been lambasted as a national disgrace. While no one has yet to describe England as the anti-Christ they have come close. In the words of one of her neighbours, she is the 'anti-Jessica'."
(quoted from http://www.guardian.co.uk/comment/st...218457,00.html)

Now, what I'm curious about is the part "no one has yet to describe England as the anti-Christ".

I understand that "have yet to do..." means "haven't done...yet". If so, the above sentence can be paraphrased as: "no one hasn't described England as the anti-Christ yet", and it doesn't sound right, like double negation cases. The intended meaning seems to be: "no one hasn't described England as the anti-Christ yet."

How do sentences like the above sound to you? Is this supposed to be a correct usage?

Thank you in advance for your help.

CuriousT

No one has described England as the anti-Christ yet....

Originally Posted by Susie Smith

No one has described England as the anti-Christ yet....

Oops! That's what I intended to write.... Thank you, Susie.
I corrected the relevant part in my previous message.

CuriousT

[RonBee]

"Nobody has yet to describe her as the anti-Christ" means nobody has described her that way yet. The sentence holds open the possibility that somebody might still do it.

:)

Originally Posted by RonBee

"Nobody has yet to describe her as the anti-Christ" means nobody has described her that way yet. The sentence holds open the possibility that somebody might still do it.

:)

RonBee,

Thank you for your reply.

If you say something like the following:

(1) Her critics have yet to describe her as the anti-Christ

it means "her critics haven't described her as the anti-Christ yet", doesn't it?

If you have "no one" instead as the subject as in the following:

(2) No one has yet to describe her as the anti-Christ

doesn't it mean "there is no one who hasn't described her as the anti-Christ yet," i.e., "everyone has described her as the anti-Christ"?

CuriousT

[RonBee]

Originally Posted by CuriousT

RonBee,

Thank you for your reply.

If you say something like the following:

(1) Her critics have yet to describe her as the anti-Christ

it means "her critics haven't described her as the anti-Christ yet", doesn't it?

Yes. They haven't done so. It's possible that they will, but, of course, they might not.

Originally Posted by CuriousT

If you have "no one" instead as the subject as in the following:

(2) No one has yet to describe her as the anti-Christ

doesn't it mean "there is no one who hasn't described her as the anti-Christ yet," i.e., "everyone has described her as the anti-Christ"?

CuriousT

Not quite. You've got it the wrong way around. Nobody ("No one") has described her that way, and they might never do so.

:)

Originally Posted by RonBee

Yes. They haven't done so. It's possible that they will, but, of course, they might not.

Not quite. You've got it the wrong way around. Nobody ("No one") has described her that way, and they might never do so.

Hmmm. This is more complicated than I thought....

Let's see if I understood you correctly.

So for you, does (1) mean (3), to be more exact?

(3) Her critics may describe her as the anti-Christ in the future (implication: they haven't done so).

Then, (2) means (4)?

(4) No one may describe her as the anti-Christ in the future (implication: no one has done so.)

If this is a correct understanding of your points, (4) does not seem to fit in the original context, though, does it? I may be confused....

CuriousT

[Casiopea]

While no one has yet to describe England as the anti-Christ they have come close.

...no one has yet to use (but the assumption is that they soon might use) the exact words "anti-Christ" to describe England.

"...no one hasn't described England as the anti-Christ yet",... (ungrammatical; double negative, as you noted).

All the best,

[Joe]

Originally Posted by RonBee

Not quite. You've got it the wrong way around. Nobody ("No one") has described her that way, and they might never do so.

RonBee, I understand "the wrong way around". But what about "the right way around"?
:wink:

[RonBee]

Originally Posted by CuriousT

Hmmm. This is more complicated than I thought....

Let's see if I understood you correctly.

So for you, does (1) mean (3), to be more exact?

(3) Her critics may describe her as the anti-Christ in the future (implication: they haven't done so).

Yes. Yes, it's possible. It hasn't happened yet, but it is possible.

Originally Posted by CuriousT

Then, (2) means (4)?
(4) No one may describe her as the anti-Christ in the future (implication: no one has done so.)

If this is a correct understanding of your points, (4) does not seem to fit in the original context, though, does it? I may be confused....

CuriousT

"No one may" carries the meaning of no one is allowed to or no one is permitted to. (Used in the positive, may means something similar to might. Used in the negative, may has to do with denial of permission. (It also has to do with the giving of permission in certain contexts. Example: "Q: May I go outside? A: Yes, you may?"))

What you should keep in mind is that 2 means the same thing as 1 or 3.

(I hope I have all those numbers right in my head. :wink: )

:)