question tags - rarely, seldom

[RonBee]

A question tag is a positive statement with a negatively phrased question tag at the end or it is the other way around.

I told you not to do that, didn't I?
I didn't tell you to just stand there, did I?

~R

[RonBee]

The speaker of the question tag usually expects agreement from the listener.

A: It's really hot today, isn't it?
B: Yes, it sure is a hot one.

A: That new guy sure is bossy, isn't he?
B: Yeah, he must think he owns the place.

~R

[Lenka]

Thank you for your answers!
(I didn't answer earlier because I wanted to have a look at this topic into some grammar textbooks etc. and I haven't had much time recently. In fact, I still haven't read about 30 pages about the word order in a really very good grammar book I have so.... maybe I will understand it (rarely, question tags etc.) when I have it read.

(Please, feel free to correct me - I know I make a lot of mistakes and would really appreciate if you corrected them so that I could improve my English!!)

RonBee, thank you for the examples and the explanation of what question tags are, but I think I know what they are and why they are used.

The problem is the fact that I don't understand why:

Originally Posted by Lenka

Why does the first sentence contain the question tag "does he?", while the second one "doesn't he?" (or "does he not?")?

There are more things I don't understand about it... However, it'd be, maybe, better to ask them gradually.

[Tdol]

You could consider 'rarely' and 'seldom' to be more negative than positive, which would explain the positive tag question.

[RonBee]

Originally Posted by Lenka

Why does the first sentence contain the question tag "does he?", while the second one "doesn't he?" (or "does he not?")?

I don't think you can use either of your example sentences, in which case you don't have to worry about what they mean. (You might (slim chance) be able to use them, but it's not very likely.) As for the question tag question, I think they are formed that way because they are not really questions. Instead, the speaker is prompting the listener to agree with him. "Do you agree with me?" is real question, but "You agree with me, don't you?" is a strong suggestion to the listener that he should agree.

I hope that helps.

[Lenka]

Thank you for your replies :).

By the way, it was Sunday today so I had some free time and decided to read the chapter about the word order in the grammar book.

In the end, I read some other chapters as well and learned something about the question tags. The book read (I'm wondering if this (the "phrase" book read) is correct... it is not, is it?) that the words rarely and seldom (only when put into a preverbal position (i.e. coming before the verb, not after as in the second example sentence)) have a negative meaning, thus the question tag must be positive. (Like in: "He never watches TV, does he?" => the verb is positive but the sentence has a negative meaning.)
I'll remember this rule...

I just don't understand how come it (the words rarely and seldom) can be placed also after the verb!! It doesn't agree with (is it correct, please?) the English, mostly very strict, word order, does it?


Now I'd like to try to think out some sentences containing the adverbs rarely and seldom. I just want to make sure I can understand the usage well. Could you correct the sentences, please?

1)
A:She rarely goes to the cinema, does she?
B: Yeah, that's right! In fact, she never goes to the cinema.

2)
A: When they meet each other they never know what to talk about.
B: But they seldom meet each other, do they?

3) (formal)
Rarely can one see such a beautiful sunset, ... ?(What is the question tag here? I don't know at all!)

4)
B: He doesn't reads books.
A: He rarely has time to read a book, does he?
B: No, he doesn't!! He doesn't rarely have time to read a book! He's got quite much time for that, but he doesn't like reading - that's why he doesn't read too often.


I know the sentences may sound a little dumb and quite artificial but you should respect the fact that I wrote them at 22:40, when I was really tired .

[RonBee]

Originally Posted by Lenka

I just don't understand how come it (the words rarely and seldom) can be placed also after the verb!!

The words rarely and seldom are hardly ever placed after the verb.

Originally Posted by Lenka

Now I'd like to try to think out some sentences containing the adverbs rarely and seldom. I just want to make sure I can understand the usage well. Could you correct the sentences, please?

Now I'd like to form some sentences containing the adverbs rarely and seldom. I just want to make sure I understand the usage well. Would you correct the sentences, please?

I had kind of hoped you had given up on that. The words rarely and seldom and questions tags don't seem to get along very well together.

Originally Posted by Lenka

1)
A:She rarely goes to the cinema, does she?
B: Yeah, that's right! In fact, she never goes to the cinema.

The word never doesn't work in that second sentence. (If she rarely goes then she does go, just not very often.) More likely:

A: She's not much of a moviegoer, is she? (AE)

B: That's right. She hardly ever goes to the movies. (AE)

A: She's not much for the cinema, is she? (BE)

B: That's true. She prefers to stay home and watch television. (BE)

Originally Posted by Lenka

2)
A: When they meet each other they never know what to talk about.

B: But they seldom meet each other, do they?

A: When they see each other they never know what to talk about.

B: But they seldom see each other, do they?

Originally Posted by Lenka

3) (formal)
Rarely can one see such a beautiful sunset, ... ?(What is the question tag here? I don't know at all!)

I can't think of one that would make sense.

Originally Posted by Lenka

4)
B: He doesn't read books.
A: He rarely has time to read a book, does he?
B: No, he doesn't!! He doesn't rarely have time to read a book! He's got quite much time for that, but he doesn't like reading - that's why he doesn't read too often.

A: He doesn't read books.

B: He rarely has time to read a book, does he?

A: He has the time. He just doesn't like reading.

Or:

A: He doesn't read books.

B: He doesn't have the time to read books, does he?

A: He has the time. He just doesn't like reading.

~R

[Lenka]

Thank you very much, Ron!

Originally Posted by RonBee

Now I'd like to form some sentences containing the adverbs rarely and seldom. I just want to make sure I understand the usage well. Would you correct the sentences, please?

I kow this is a little off-topic but why did you correct my "could"? Why is "could" not correct in the sentence and why did you replace it with "would". Does it just sound better? Why?

I had kind of hoped you had given up on that. The words rarely and seldom and questions tags don't seem to get along very well together.

I don't like to give up on anything! (Sometimes it takes me some time to do what I want, though.)

Originally Posted by Lenka
3) (formal)
Rarely can one see such a beautiful sunset, ... ?(What is the question tag here? I don't know at all!)

I can't think of one that would make sense.
~R

Well... does the sentence itself make sense? Or do you just mean it does not make sense with a question tag?

I wanted to say: One (a man; generally - a human being) doesn't see such a beautiful sunset too often, does he/she/one?? (Which subject should I use here?)

[RonBee]

Originally Posted by Lenka

Thank you very much, Ron!

You're welcome!

Originally Posted by Lenka

I kow this is a little off-topic but why did you correct my "could"? Why is "could" not correct in the sentence and why did you replace it with "would". Does it just sound better? Why?

One meaning of "Could you help me?" is "Are you able to help me?" so it is better to use "would" (especially in writing).

Originally Posted by Lenka

Well... does the sentence itself make sense? Or do you just mean it does not make sense with a question tag?

I wanted to say: One (a man; generally - a human being) doesn't see such a beautiful sunset too often, does he/she/one?? (Which subject should I use here?)

"Rarely can one see such a beautiful sunset" is a well-phrased sentence. It needs nothing to be added to it.


~R


.

[Lenka]

Originally Posted by Lenka
3) (formal)
Rarely can one see such a beautiful sunset, ... ?(What is the question tag here? I don't know at all!)

Originally Posted by Lenka
One (a man; generally - a human being) doesn't see such a beautiful sunset too often, does he/she/one?? (Which subject should I use here?)

Originally Posted by RonBee

"Rarely can one see such a beautiful sunset" is a well-phrased sentence. It needs nothing to be added to it.


~R


.

Well, if I just did want to add the question tag, how would it be? One doesn't see such a beautiful sunset too often, does he/she/one??


You're right, it might not need anything to be added to it but all sentences containing a question tag don't usually need it, actually.

I just thought this tag could have a falling intonation and would express no real question, in fact. The speaker would just expect the listener aither to agree with him or just say nothing (referring to the topic).
Do you think it would sound weird if the sentence was used with the question tag?