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29-May-2004, 06:40
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| | Re: To tdol Thank you for the clear example again, Mike. (case a: ",conj (b)" included) There is deep suspicion that government is the natural enemy of freedom, even if it is elected by the people.
The truth is that a person of seventy is a totally different person than a person of twenty ,and a comparison or their intellect is impractical. (case b: ",conj (b)" excluded) I have a deep suspicion that government is the natural enemy of freedom, even if others disagree with me.
The truth is that I was home alone on Saturday night, and I hope you believe that.
Now, which case is more common, "case a" or "case b"?
When I asked tdol: Quote: |
Originally Posted by Taka Is it possible to generalize that if there is a "....that (a), conj (b)" construction, conj (b) is always included in the "that-clause"? Or, do you think it depends on the content? | then he said: Quote: |
Originally Posted by tdol Off-hand, I'd probably say we could, | So I thought "case a" was more usual. But it seems like you are saying that "case a" and "case b" would equally appear in English, depending on the content. | 
29-May-2004, 10:25
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| | Re: To tdol Included
There is deep suspicion that government, even if it is elected by the people, is the natural enemy of freedom.
All the best, :D | 
29-May-2004, 19:10
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| | Re: To tdol Quote: |
Originally Posted by Taka Thank you for the clear example again, Mike. (case a: ",conj (b)" included) There is deep suspicion that government is the natural enemy of freedom, even if it is elected by the people.
The truth is that a person of seventy is a totally different person than a person of twenty ,and a comparison or their intellect is impractical. (case b: ",conj (b)" excluded) I have a deep suspicion that government is the natural enemy of freedom, even if others disagree with me.
The truth is that I was home alone on Saturday night, and I hope you believe that.
Now, which case is more common, "case a" or "case b"?
When I asked tdol: Quote: |
Originally Posted by Taka Is it possible to generalize that if there is a "....that (a), conj (b)" construction, conj (b) is always included in the "that-clause"? Or, do you think it depends on the content? | then he said: Quote: |
Originally Posted by tdol Off-hand, I'd probably say we could, | So I thought "case a" was more usual. But it seems like you are saying that "case a" and "case b" would equally appear in English, depending on the content. | I don't think I can give you statistics on frequency. My guess is that the "included" form is more common, simply because one would have a tendency to end the thought when one reaches the end of the noun clause -- wherever that end occurs. :wink: | 
30-May-2004, 05:39
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| | Re: To tdol Quote: |
Originally Posted by MikeNewYork I don't think I can give you statistics on frequency. My guess is that the "included" form is more common, simply because one would have a tendency to end the thought when one reaches the end of the noun clause -- wherever that end occurs. | I learned here in Japan that a comma is usually put to end the thought and to start new thought. Is it not necessary true? | 
30-May-2004, 06:18
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| | It could be true, but there will be plenty of cases where it is not true. | 
30-May-2004, 16:22
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| | Re: To tdol Quote: |
Originally Posted by Taka Quote: |
Originally Posted by MikeNewYork I don't think I can give you statistics on frequency. My guess is that the "included" form is more common, simply because one would have a tendency to end the thought when one reaches the end of the noun clause -- wherever that end occurs. | I learned here in Japan that a comma is usually put to end the thought and to start new thought. Is it not necessary true? | Commas are used for many things. Sometimes, they indicate a natural or obligatory pause. At other times, they are there for purely grammatical reasons. One could say that a compound sentence (with two independent clauses) is two thoughts, but one could also see it as one thought with two pieces. | 
30-May-2004, 16:50
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| | Re: To tdol Quote: |
Originally Posted by tdol It could be true, but there will be plenty of cases where it is not true. | Quote: |
Originally Posted by MikeNewYork Commas are used for many things. Sometimes, they indicate a natural or obligatory pause. At other times, they are there for purely grammatical reasons. One could say that a compound sentence (with two independent clauses) is two thoughts, but one could also see it as one thought with two pieces. | OK. I understand.
Thank you, teachears! I really enjoy learning English here! | 
30-May-2004, 16:53
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| | Re: To tdol Quote: |
Originally Posted by Taka Quote: |
Originally Posted by tdol It could be true, but there will be plenty of cases where it is not true. | Quote: |
Originally Posted by MikeNewYork Commas are used for many things. Sometimes, they indicate a natural or obligatory pause. At other times, they are there for purely grammatical reasons. One could say that a compound sentence (with two independent clauses) is two thoughts, but one could also see it as one thought with two pieces. | OK. I understand.
Thank you, teachears! I really enjoy learning English here! | Not half as much as we enjoy your questions. :D | 
30-May-2004, 21:03
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