'to be or to have been'??

[riceball72]

Hi
I am hoping someone can help me with this. I am wondering if it is a difference in perspective with the sentence, a difference between American and British usage or just my lack of knowledge!!!

The sentence:

Some think the pyramids were built by slaves, but this has been proven to be wrong.

Some think the pyramids were built by slaves, but this has been proved to have been wrong.


The second sentence feels strange to me, but I can not explain why. I also don't feel comfortable with using two 'been' and 'been' in the same sentence.

Can anyone tell me which is correct and why?

Thank you in advance.
riceball!

[2006]

Originally Posted by riceball72

Hi
I am hoping someone can help me with this. I am wondering if it is a difference in perspective with the sentence, a difference between American and British usage or just my lack of knowledge!!!

The sentence:

Some think the pyramids were built by slaves, but this has been proven to be wrong.

Some think the pyramids were built by slaves, but this has been proved to have been wrong.


The second sentence feels strange to me, but I can not explain why. I also don't feel comfortable with using two 'been' and 'been' in the same sentence.

Can anyone tell me which is correct and why?

Thank you in advance.
riceball!

I agree that the second sentence is "strange"; it is unnecessarily wordy/overly uses the perfect tense, in my opinion. (and might be quite confusing to English learners)

The first sentence is better in my opinion, but it too can be simplified: 'Some think the pyramids were built by slaves, but this (idea) was proved to be wrong.'
There is more use of perfect tense by speakers of British English.

[albertino]

Originally Posted by riceball72

Some think the pyramids were built by slaves, but this has been proven to be wrong.

Some think the pyramids were built by slaves, but this has been proved to have been wrong.

"to have been wrong" is a past concept.
We can say, " She is alleged to have committed(committed the murder before the allegation takes place) the murder", or "He is judged to have lied(lied before he is judged) about doing his homework."
So, did you see the point? It is illogical to have "to have been wrong", but "to be wrong", in your sentence.
(Not a teacher.)

[joham]

L.G. Alexander says in his LONGMAN ENGLISH GRAMMAR (16.12.3):
I would have liked to have seen it.= I would have liked to see it. (It is not necessary to use to have seen .)

But there are still some people who repeatedly use "to have done/been" in a sentence. Well, we have got to accept it.

[albertino]

Originally Posted by joham

L.G. Alexander says in his LONGMAN ENGLISH GRAMMAR (16.12.3):
I would have liked to have seen it.= I would have liked to see it. (It is not necessary to use to have seen .)

But there are still some people who repeatedly use "to have done/been" in a sentence. Well, we have got to accept it.

Well..., two wrongs doesn't equal one right.