Forum newsfeeds
Forum Newsfeeds


Sites for Teachers

Sites for Teachers




Go Back   UsingEnglish.com ESL Forum > Learning English > Ask a Teacher

Notices

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1 (permalink)  
Old 05-Dec-2007, 19:33
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Country: Poland
Posts: 108
Current Location: Legnica
First Language: Polish
Member Type: Other
Thanks: 0
Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post
ewelina is an unknown quantity at this point
Default possessive case with apostrophe

Hello Forum,

I just got all jummed up with the possessive case 's and the English articles in examples that go like this:

the butcher's boy
the Attorney-General's husband
the cat's whiskers
the Masons' dog

From the expressions a dollar's worth or some people's eyesas they mean it is worth a dollar (one dollar) and the eyes of some people, I figured that the article in the first fourth expressions should refer to the second noun. But what happens if we rearrange these expressions? It is most evident in the first and fourth example:

? boy of the butcher
the husband of the Attorney-General (there can be only one)
the whiskers of the cat (formed circle)
? dog of the Masons (the must go with Masons, because we are talking of a family)

Does the article -- whichever it is -- refer to the first noun ended with an apostrophe, or the second? If the article applies to the second one what are the missing articles? Is there any rule for this?

Regards, Ewelina
Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to ewelina For This Useful Post:
aya_aya7121 (07-Nov-2008)
Sponsored Links
  #2 (permalink)  
Old 05-Dec-2007, 20:07
Anglika's Avatar
Moderator
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Country: UK
Posts: 16,785
Current Location: UK
First Language: English
Member Type: Other
Thanks: 5
Thanked 3,907 Times in 3,669 Posts
Anglika has a reputation beyond reputeAnglika has a reputation beyond reputeAnglika has a reputation beyond reputeAnglika has a reputation beyond reputeAnglika has a reputation beyond reputeAnglika has a reputation beyond reputeAnglika has a reputation beyond reputeAnglika has a reputation beyond reputeAnglika has a reputation beyond reputeAnglika has a reputation beyond reputeAnglika has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: possessive case with apostrophe

Quote:
Originally Posted by ewelina View Post
Hello Forum,

I just got all jummed up with the possessive case 's and the English articles in examples that go like this:

the butcher's boy
the Attorney-General's husband
the cat's whiskers
the Masons' dog

From the expressions a dollar's worth or some people's eyesas they mean it is worth a dollar (one dollar) and the eyes of some people, I figured that the article in the first fourth expressions should refer to the second noun. But what happens if we rearrange these expressions? It is most evident in the first and fourth example:

? boy of the butcher
the husband of the Attorney-General (there can be only one)
the whiskers of the cat (formed circle)
? dog of the Masons (the must go with Masons, because we are talking of a family)

Does the article -- whichever it is -- refer to the first noun ended with an apostrophe, or the second? If the article applies to the second one what are the missing articles? Is there any rule for this?

Regards, Ewelina
"The butcher's boy"/The Masons' dog" > In both of these the subject [boy/dog] are qualified by (respectively) "butcher's" and "Masons'", so the article belongs to boy/dog.
Reply With Quote
  #3 (permalink)  
Old 06-Dec-2007, 18:29
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Country: Poland
Posts: 108
Current Location: Legnica
First Language: Polish
Member Type: Other
Thanks: 0
Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post
ewelina is an unknown quantity at this point
Default Re: possessive case with apostrophe

Sorry, I don't understand.

You do confirm that there is a difference between the understanding and assigning of the articles in constructions a dollar's worth and the butcher's boy even if they look alike?

So if boy is defined by butcher and the article the referres to boy, the rearranged expresion should look like this the boy of a butcher, because butcher is not specified????

please help
Reply With Quote
  #4 (permalink)  
Old 06-Dec-2007, 20:33
Anglika's Avatar
Moderator
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Country: UK
Posts: 16,785
Current Location: UK
First Language: English
Member Type: Other
Thanks: 5
Thanked 3,907 Times in 3,669 Posts
Anglika has a reputation beyond reputeAnglika has a reputation beyond reputeAnglika has a reputation beyond reputeAnglika has a reputation beyond reputeAnglika has a reputation beyond reputeAnglika has a reputation beyond reputeAnglika has a reputation beyond reputeAnglika has a reputation beyond reputeAnglika has a reputation beyond reputeAnglika has a reputation beyond reputeAnglika has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: possessive case with apostrophe

Quote:
Originally Posted by ewelina View Post
Sorry, I don't understand.

You do confirm that there is a difference between the understanding and assigning of the articles in constructions a dollar's worth and the butcher's boy even if they look alike?

So if boy is defined by butcher and the article the referres to boy, the rearranged expresion should look like this the boy of a butcher, because butcher is not specified????

please help

Why would you think that? You do not have to specify the butcher. The boy is generically the boy employed by a butcher.

"A dollar's worth" = generically something that is worth a dollar.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Possessive case Seagull Ask a Teacher 2 19-Jan-2007 14:42
Possessive case vs Contracted is Ciciey Ask a Teacher 2 17-Jan-2007 14:35
Possessive apostrophe sazzle Ask a Teacher 5 22-Sep-2006 07:57
apostrophe (') Sstupid Ask a Teacher 10 01-Feb-2006 06:20
Singular Possessive Case trixi68 Ask a Teacher 3 22-Oct-2004 11:53


New To Site? Need Help?

All times are GMT. The time now is 07:31.


vBulletin, Copyright ©2000 - 2009, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.2.0
Copyright © 2002 - 2008 UsingEnglish.com