Past Subjunctive

[NearThere]

Yes, Heidita. Like I said...


this is a very interesting discussion for me. I would not have thought this:

Typically, you would think that the phrase would have been "I would have come to New York" which, in truth is bad English.

which is quite the opposite to what we were taught at school. But I, being the non-native speaker, am in no position to say it's wrong. And this position was further backed up by Riverkid:

Again, it's nonstandard but nonstandard does not mean wrong.

So is there a line we can draw between what is right and what is wrong? Or should we learn to be more forgiving and give more room for any certain language to evolve? According to this:

Americans are Ruining English
For more than 200 years, right up through Prince Charles, people have complained that Americans trash the English language. But is it corruption — or simply normal change? John Algeo investigates how both American and British Englishes have evolved. (The research in this essay was first published in 1999.)


And where should grammar stand in all of this? Treat grammar as general guidelines or difinitive rules?

I don't know, I'm just curious. And what about for people learnig English as a 2nd language, is this something that should be noted to them? Would it be too much information? and how much is too much? Then again, on the flip side of it, how much grammar is too much?

But coming from a die-hard moderationist (that a word?), I could be bias.

NT

[heidita]

Hi near there, I have opened a thread on this topic as I also thought river's answer was fascinating. I don't agree with him at all, but.....

Have a look here:

http://www.usingenglish.com/forum/ge...s-grammar.html

The answer by iconoclast differs from river's, so does DavidL's. Both are British.

[riverkid]

What riverkid said is very interesting to me.

So for foreigners who are learning English as a 2nd language, would you have given that information or tried to stay away from it. I am curious.

NT

Absolutely, NT. ESLs have to function in the real world of English and they're going to hear a great deal of stuff that ain't in the textbooks. They have to learn when and where these nonstandard forms are used.

Of course, these are for more advanced students, not beginners.

[riverkid]

This sentence surprised me especially :

Emuntalee wrote:
Typically, you would think that the phrase would have been "I would have come to New York" which, in truth is bad English.

Why should emuntalee consider the grammatically accepted as "correct" sentence incorrect??

It surprised me too, Heidita. I thought that perhaps she just got confused. I guess only Emuntalee can clear this up.