When to use has had/ have had

[kssujith2005]

hi,
Can anyone tell me when to use has had/ had had in a sentence.
Because i can not understand the need to use it instead of just using has/had.

eg: He has had a bad day

Can't we just say he had a bad day ?

What is the difference between these two sentences..

Please help........

[engee30]

Originally Posted by kssujith2005

hi,
Can anyone tell me when to use has had/ had had in a sentence.
Because i can not understand the need to use it instead of just using has/had.

eg: He has had a bad day

Can't we just say he had a bad day ?

What is the difference between these two sentences..

Please help........

He has had a bad day means that that particular day is not finished yet, while He had a bad day indicates that the day in question is finished at the time of speaking about it.

[riverkid]

Originally Posted by kssujith2005

hi,
Can anyone tell me when to use has had in a sentence.
Because i can not understand the need to use it instead of just using has/had.

eg: He has had a bad day

Can't we just say he had a bad day ?

What is the difference between these two sentences..

Please help........

This is complicated enough without dealing with two structures at one time. Let's just deal with the present perfect

"He has had a bad day."

and the difference between it and the past simple,

"He had a bad day."

for now, K. We can deal with the past perfect, "had had" in another post. Okay? {I've deleted your reference to "had had" in your posting quoted above}

The following is from another thread on the same topic. I've moved what I consider to be the crucial part but you may want to read the whole posting as there is other valuable information there.

http://www.usingenglish.com/forum/as...-has-left.html

Originally Posted by joham

--Does Trevor still work there?
--No, he left.

This dialogue comes from CAMBRIDGE LEARNER'S DICTIONARY (leave). I'd like to know why the answer isn't 'No, he's left', as we are always told by grammar books.

riverkid wrote:
We can use either, even when the event has just happened. The present perfect is used for HOT NEWS and for past events that have a importance to now, often called, "current relevance". It can also be used to be more formal/polite.

But, and this is vitally important. It all depends on speaker choice. In the situation that you've presented, the speaker isn't all that concerned about Trevor and his leaving, it's just a simple finished event.

[riverkid]

Originally Posted by engee30

He has had a bad day means that that particular day is not finished yet, while He had a bad day indicates that the day in question is finished at the time of speaking about it.

Engee, that

"that that particular day is not finished yet"

is a possibility,

"So far, he's had a bad day"

but it most certainly isn't always the case.

Do,

"He's had an operation" / "She's had a tooth pulled" / They've had their tonsils out

mean that these "operations" aren't finished?

Engee, I suspect that you've read this description in some grammar books. I know that it's been taught this way in a lot of American grammars. Could you post one the info from one of these grammars that describes this issue?

[engee30]

Originally Posted by riverkid

Engee, that

"that that particular day is not finished yet"

is a possibility,

"So far, he's had a bad day"

but it most certainly isn't always the case.

Do,

"He's had an operation" / "She's had a tooth pulled" / They've had their tonsils out

mean that these "operations" aren't finished?

Well, in this case it's not about the operations not finished at the time of speaking, but it's mainly about the time during which such operations may occur. Obviously, the importance or relevance of an event to the speaker is another thing to mention.

Originally Posted by riverkid

Engee, I suspect that you've read this description in some grammar books. I know that it's been taught this way in a lot of American grammars. Could you post one the info from one of these grammars that describes this issue?

Yes, I've read about the issue in one of the grammar books I am in possession of. Here are two scans from two of these grammars (a very popular series of books):

have had vs had.jpg
Attachment 323

[riverkid]

Hi Engee.

Clicking on "Attachment 323" gives the following message. Clicking on the picture link opens the right page.

Invalid Attachment specified. If you followed a valid link, please notify the administrator

If you received this message immediately after posting a new thread, there's a good chance your message was flagged as spam. Please read this thread for more info.

[engee30]

Originally Posted by riverkid

Hi Engee.

Clicking on "Attachment 323" gives the following message. Clicking on the picture link opens the right page.

That's strange - I don't get any message popped up like that.

Here's the right attachment:
have had vs had_.jpg

[riverkid]

Is it only a short attachment, Engee, consisting of 4 lines and two example sentences?

[engee30]

Originally Posted by riverkid

Is it only a short attachment, Engee, consisting of 4 lines and two example sentences?

No, that was only a piece of the whole page, but the piece provided deals with the issue in question.
Here's the whole page:

have had vs had_.jpg