Can I Vs May I

[riverkid]

Originally Posted by Neillythere

For those across the pond, here is the equivalent from Websters:

can - Definition from the Merriam-Webster Online Dictionary

usage
Can and may are most frequently interchangeable in senses denoting possibility; because the possibility of one's doing something may depend on another's acquiescence, they have also become interchangeable in the sense denoting permission.
The use of can to ask or grant permission has been common since the 19th century and is well established, although some commentators feel may is more appropriate in formal contexts.
May is relatively rare in negative constructions (mayn't is not common); cannot and can't are usual in such contexts.

Effectively what they are saying is:

"Can I?" means "Am I able to?", but one's ability to do something may be dependent on not only your inate ability but someone else's permission.
Hence the interchangeability of "can" and "may" in certain circumstances.

I don't believe that they're saying this, NT. Would any person really bother to ask another whether they had an innate ability to perform bodily functions?

In that same definition they say this;

2: have permission to —used interchangeably with may<you can go now if you like>

None of the definitions provided in section 1 accurately describe what a speaker is saying by,

"Can I go to the bathroom?"

Definition 2 clearly does. The speaker is asking for permission from someone who has the power to grant it.

The prescription has had no syntactic/semantic validity at all for a number of generations.

#

[Neillythere]

NT:
"Can I?" means "Am I able to?", but one's ability to do something may be dependent on not only your inate ability but someone else's permission.
Hence the interchangeability of "can" and "may" in certain circumstances.

RK:
I don't believe that they're saying this, NT.

NT:
usage
Can and may are most frequently interchangeable in senses denoting possibility; because the possibility of one's doing something may depend on another's acquiescence, they have also become interchangeable in the sense denoting permission.

I rest my case - permanently.

[daznorthants]

I would seem that my initial thoughts were correct. I certainly see them as interchangeable but these days I rarely here "may I", even in formal situations.

I do not think I am purist but reading posts it does appear that we are generally happy to except changes without selling the more formal version.

I think I might be on my own somewhat is resisting the change.