too black a view

[kirimaru]

Hi,teachers.
There is one thing I would like you to help me.I found this sentence when reading about Shakespeare :

These plays are too serious,and there is too black a view of human nature.

This sentence looks strange to me. Why is the adjective black put before the noun a view ?
Is it a way of emphasis ? Please let me know.
Thanks

[beascarpetta]

Originally Posted by kirimaru

These plays are too serious,and there is too black a view of human nature.
Are you quite certain it didn't say too bleak a view ?

This sentence looks strange to me. Why is the adjective black put before the noun a view ?
Is it a way of emphasis ? Please let me know.
Thanks

to some extent at least
too is sometimes used with an adjective in front of a noun in formal or literary English a /an is put after the adjective

so you'd say

this is too complex a problem to be dealt with here

you would not say: this is a too complex problem

some people also use too in front of words like kind to express their gratitude for something that someone has done

you're too kind.

[engee30]

Originally Posted by beascarpetta

to some extent at least
too is sometimes used with an adjective in front of a noun in formal or literary English a /an is put after the adjective

I think it's not only in formal or literary English that too + adjective + (a/an) + noun is used. I'd say it's Standard English to say so.

Speaking of formal use - this is where you can say that such use is formal:

She's such a pretty girl. (standard)
She's so pretty a girl. (formal)

[naomimalan]

Originally Posted by engee30

I think it's not only in formal or literary English that too + adjective + (a/an) + noun is used. I'd say it's Standard English to say so.

Speaking of formal use - this is where you can say that such use is formal:

She's such a pretty girl. (standard)
She's so pretty a girl. (formal)

Actually I wouldn't accept your second sentence Engee. I think this structure only works with "too".

[BobK]

Originally Posted by naomimalan

Actually I wouldn't accept your second sentence Engee. I think this structure only works with "too".

, but the sentence is nearly OK. If you made the "so" part of a "so ... that" construction, the sentence would work:'I didn't think she was so pretty a girl that she could charm the birds down from the trees".

(NB: I'm not sure if 'charm the birds [down] from the trees' is common enough to be called an idiom; I got it from an Elvis Costello song.)

b

[kirimaru]

Originally Posted by beascarpetta

These plays are too serious,and there is too black a view of human nature.

Are you quite certain it didn't say too bleak a view ?

yes,I am quite certain and there is no typing mistake here.


Thank you all for helping me.

[engee30]

Originally Posted by naomimalan

Actually I wouldn't accept your second sentence Engee. I think this structure only works with "too".

So now all I need to get to know is why my first sentence is alright and the other is not?

She's such a charming person (that) everybody likes her.
She's such a charming person - everybody likes her.

She is so charming a person (that) everyone seems to like her.
She is so charming a person - everybody seems to like her.

[naomimalan]

Originally Posted by BobK

, but the sentence is nearly OK. If you made the "so" part of a "so ... that" construction, the sentence would work:'I didn't think she was so pretty a girl that she could charm the birds down from the trees".
b

Yes you're dead right Bob. I apologise for sending in too hasty a reply!

Apparently you can also use it with as and how, also however:
Michael Swan* gives these examples:

It was as pleasant a day as I have ever spent.
Miss Langham arm in arm with Mr Peabody - how astonishing a sight!
However good a sterio you have, you will never get absolutely perfect reproduction.

And confirming your so....that, he gives:

It was so warm a day that we decided to go to the sea.

“Practical English Usage”, Michael Swan, OUP 1988, p. 18

[naomimalan]

Originally Posted by engee30

So now all I need to get to know is why my first sentence is alright and the other is not?

She's such a charming person (that) everybody likes her.
She's such a charming person - everybody likes her.

She is so charming a person (that) everyone seems to like her.
She is so charming a person - everybody seems to like her.

I think Bob has already given you your answer Engee. To make it acceptable you'd need a that.

[engee30]

Originally Posted by naomimalan

I think Bob has already given you your answer Engee. To make it acceptable you'd need a that.

Then all I can do is disagree with both of you, I hate to say.

If we already know something about somebody or something we're talking about, we can use ellipsis, and there is no need to use a clause with that:

(we all know people like her,) so we can say, She's such a charming person, or more formally and with more emphasis on the adjective, She's so charming a person. You might well not use the noun person, She is so charming.

It's all about the emphasis you might want to put in a sentence. Here are some more examples (taken from different foremost dictionaries and textbooks):

She's got three degrees. She's so intelligent a person!
The garden seemed small for so large a house.
I have never been to so expensive a restaurant before.
I've bought so expensive a dress and now you say you don't like it!