past perfect tense (English as a second language users)

[venkatasu]

A sample paragraph

When he woke up that morning, the first thing Bob heard was rain. It was a steady rain that showed no signs of stopping. Bob was downcast. This afternoon was the first game of baseball season, and he was slated to pitch. Last night he had checked the weather and the weatherman had not mentioned rain - he had predicted a partly cloudy day with temperatures in the sixties. Bob got dressed and ate his breakfast unenthusiastically. He was thinking of how much he had prepared for this day during the past weeks and how much he had looked forward to pitching the opening game. He had improved quite a bit since last season, and his coach had complimented him on his performance in loast week's practice game. Waiting one more day to open the season would seem like an eternity! Bob sighed and turned the radio on. The weatherman was revising his forecast from partly cloudy to an 80 percent chance of rain.

source : Writing communicate activities in English

When reading or writing such paragraphs, I am puzzled with the usage of past perfect tense. I think I have to go through the context. But it seems difficult and confusing. It's not that much easier in examples for past perfect tense which mostly involves 2 sentences.(2 two past actions and first completed action takes the past perfect tense)

We users (English as secondand language users) read such passages in news articles, essays, etc. daily or we may write such passages, often with confusion like when and where to put 'had' for p.p.t.

Thank you in advance

[venkatasu]

Originally Posted by David L.

I request senior teachers and members alike to provide numerous examples esp., lengthy passages

Since posters to threads are not acting as paid personal tutors, I find being taken to task in this manner, as being found wanting, highly objectionable, particularly when I think of the amount of time given to some posts.

Since I for one fear that I may not meet the standards you demand, I will desist from offering any contribution to your future threads.

Dear teachers/volunteers

1. I want to know the meaning for 'since I for one fear that I may not meeet the standards you demand I will desist from offering any contribution to your future threads' in the above post.

2. can we use 'since I fear' instead of 'since I for one fear'.

Thank you and keep volunteering with examples for past perfect tense in passages like in the above post.

[tzfujimino]

Originally Posted by venkatasu

Dear teachers/volunteers

1. I want to know the meaning for 'since I for one fear that I may not meeet the standards you demand I will desist from offering any contribution to your future threads' in the above post.

"For one" in this case means "as a particular one of several possibilities" or " as one example."

So, "since I (for one) fear・・・"
Do you see what I mean?
I don't know how to explain it to you well.
I hope you can understand what I'm trying to say.
I had had the same question like you, but I realized.

Thank you.

[venkatasu]

Originally Posted by tzfujimino

"For one" in this case means "as a particular one of several possibilities" or " as one example."

So, "since I (for one) fear・・・"
Do you see what I mean?
I don't know how to explain it to you well.
I hope you can understand what I'm trying to say.
I had had the same question like you, but I realized.

Thank you.

Thank you tzfujimino for your explanation. I would be benefited if you explain "as a particular one of several possibilities" in this context. Regarding usage of past perfect tense in a passage, I have posted one example with heading 'a sample paragraph' in this thread. Please go through it.

[naomimalan]

Originally Posted by venkatasu

Dear teachers/volunteers

1. I want to know the meaning for 'since I for one fear that I may not meeet the standards you demand I will desist from offering any contribution to your future threads' in the above post.

2. can we use 'since I fear' instead of 'since I for one fear'.

Thank you and keep volunteering with examples for past perfect tense in passages like in the above post.

Phrase 2 is perfectly acceptable (from a language point of view, I mean) but the meaning is slightly different. In "...since I for one fear...", the speaker (or rather the writer, in this case) means he himself fears X but he is only speaking for himself, although there may be others in the forum who fear the same thing (not likely to be true by the way).

Below is a long text containing lots of examples of the past perfect. If you have any problems you can get back to us. But if you bear in mind what Anglika told you higher up (to do with the chronological order of events) you should be able to work it out (NB "had had" is the past perfect form of the verb "have"):

It was half an hour before I could think and react normally after I had my first confirmed epileptic fit. Then I was able to piece things together. A month before I had been seen by a neurologist because I had had two blackouts. No one had witnessed these, and a diagnosis of epilepsy should not be given without the seizures witnessed.w1 This time, my dad and sister had witnessed the seizure and were able to describe what had happened. My dad is a general practitioner, and he told me that I had had an atypical tonic seizure. My sister is not medically qualified and had seen it from a less clinical perspective: she had thought I was dying because I stopped breathing and went blue. Based on the accounts of witnesses, my neurologist could confirm that I was epileptic.
The realisation that I had epilepsy knocked me back in every sense. The seizure had a physical impact on me. I had fallen heavily to the ground and cut and bruised myself. The persistent contraction of muscles, especially in my calves and jaw left me feeling like I had run a marathon, and I could not walk down stairs for days. I was exhausted, and would sleep for 12 hours every night if I could. I would get back from my clinical placement, eat, then go straight to bed, which left no time for study, recreation, or a social life.
As my body began to recover, the psychological impact of the seizure hit me. I was humiliated by the experience. Like many people who have had seizures I was terrified of having another fit in a more public or dangerous environment.w2
The chance of recurrence after an unprovoked seizure is 36% by one year, 48% by three years, and 56% by five years, so my concerns were realistic.w3 I tried to regain control by doing the things that I had done before. I went out running, but my housemate made me draw a map of my route. Every time I left the house I told her how long I expected to be, in case something happened. This anxious and restrictive behaviour began to fade in the weeks after the seizure, and as this improved and I became less tired, I tried to come to terms with what had happened.
One concern was that although I am in the age group for which adult onset epilepsy is most likely to occur, 20-29 years, a cause should be identified.w4 I found that a little knowledge can be a dangerous thing. As a typically hypochondriac medical student, I had already diagnosed myself as having all the obscure epilepsy syndromes—life threatening tumours, degenerative neurological diseases, and cardiac abnormalities that can mimic epilepsy.w5 I learnt that 6% of adult onset epilepsy is the result of a neurological tumour.w6 Six per cent sounds like a lot when you could be one of those statistics. I didn’t believe I was seriously ill but was still worried. I had gone from being a young, healthy, athletic woman to someone with a potentially dangerous neurological condition.

Good luck and hang in there, as they say!

[tzfujimino]

Originally Posted by venkatasu

Thank you tzfujimino for your explanation. I would be benefited if you explain "as a particular one of several possibilities" in this context.

Naomimalan's explanation above is easier to understand.

Thank you for the sample passage. Please give me some more time to work it out.

[venkatasu]

Originally Posted by naomimalan

Phrase 2 is perfectly acceptable (from a language point of view, I mean) but the meaning is slightly different. In "...since I for one fear...", the speaker (or rather the writer, in this case) means he himself fears X but he is only speaking for himself, although there may be others in the forum who fear the same thing (not likely to be true by the way).

Below is a long text containing lots of examples of the past perfect. If you have any problems you can get back to us. But if you bear in mind what Anglika told you higher up (to do with the chronological order of events) you should be able to work it out (NB "had had" is the past perfect form of the verb "have"):
--------------
Thank you sir, please clear my doubts in the following passage (noted in bracket with blue color of course for the whole passage if time permits for you

It was half an hour before I could think and react normally after I had my first confirmed epileptic fit. Then I was able to piece things together. A month before I had been seen (why not 'was' instead of had been seen) by a neurologist because I had had two blackouts. No one had witnessed (Which is the other past event before 'witnessed' - to put had witnessed -how to do it chronologically) these, and a diagnosis of epilepsy should not be given without the seizures witnessed.w1 This time, my dad and sister had witnessed the seizure and were able to describe what had happened. My dad is a general practitioner, and he told me that I had had an atypical tonic seizure. My sister is not medically qualified and had seen it from a less clinical perspective: she had thought I was dying because I stopped breathing and went blue. Based on the accounts of witnesses, my neurologist could confirm that I was epileptic.
The realisation that I had epilepsy knocked me back in every sense. The seizure had a physical impact on me. I had fallen heavily to the ground and cut and bruised myself. The persistent contraction of muscles, especially in my calves and jaw left me feeling like I had run a marathon, and I could not walk down stairs for days. I was exhausted, and would sleep for 12 hours every night if I could. I would get back from my clinical placement, eat, then go straight to bed, which left no time for study, recreation, or a social life.
As my body began to recover, the psychological impact of the seizure hit me. I was humiliated by the experience. Like many people who have had seizures I was terrified of having another fit in a more public or dangerous environment.w2
The chance of recurrence after an unprovoked seizure is 36% by one year, 48% by three years, and 56% by five years, so my concerns were realistic.w3 I tried to regain control by doing the things that I had done before. I went out running, but my housemate made me draw a map of my route. Every time I left the house I told her how long I expected to be, in case something happened. This anxious and restrictive behaviour began to fade in the weeks after the seizure, and as this improved and I became less tired, I tried to come to terms with what had happened.
One concern was that although I am in the age group for which adult onset epilepsy is most likely to occur, 20-29 years, a cause should be identified.w4 I found that a little knowledge can be a dangerous thing. As a typically hypochondriac medical student, I had already diagnosed myself as having all the obscure epilepsy syndromes—life threatening tumours, degenerative neurological diseases, and cardiac abnormalities that can mimic epilepsy.w5 I learnt that 6% of adult onset epilepsy is the result of a neurological tumour.w6 Six per cent sounds like a lot when you could be one of those statistics. I didn’t believe I was seriously ill but was still worried. I had gone from being a young, healthy, athletic woman to someone with a potentially dangerous neurological condition.



Good luck and hang in there, as they say!

Please tell how to put it chronologically (may be a little easier) like which event happened first then next such that it would be useful for me

[naomimalan]

Originally Posted by venkatasu

Thank you sir,(actually, I'm a woman. No problem though, just call me Naomi) please clear my doubts in the following passage (noted in bracket with blue color of course for the whole passage if time permits for you

It was half an hour before I could think and react normally after I had my first confirmed epileptic fit. Then I was able to piece things together. A month before I had been seen (why not 'was' instead of had been seen) by a neurologist because I had had two blackouts. No one had witnessed (Which is the other past event before 'witnessed' - to put had witnessed -how to do it chronologically) these, and a diagnosis of epilepsy should not be given without the seizures witnessed.w1 This time, my dad and sister had witnessed the seizure and were able to describe what had happened. My dad is a general practitioner, and he told me that I had had an atypical tonic seizure. My sister is not medically qualified and had seen it from a less clinical perspective: she had thought I was dying because I stopped breathing and went blue. Please tell how to put it chronologically (may be a little easier) like which event happened first then next such that it would be useful for me

Let’s say she has her first confirmed epileptic fit on 1st August 2006. Event Z
A month before, on 1st July 2006, she is seen by a neurologist. Event Y

She is seen by a neurologist (Event Y: 1/7/06); she has her first confirmed epileptic fit (event Z: 1/8/06)

She has two blackouts/ no-one witnesses these (Events X and X: June 2006). She is seen by a neurologist (Event Y: 1/7/06)
>> A month before, I had been seen by a neurologist because I had had two blackouts. No-one had witnessed these.
==

Something happens: the seizure/ her dad and sister witness it (Events i and i); her dad and sister are able to describe it … (Event ii )>> My dad and sister had witnessed the seizure and were able to describe what had happened.

==

she has an atypical tonic seizure (event A); her dad ( a medical practitioner) tells her this (event B)
>>..my dad told me I had had an atypical tonic seizure.

==

Her dad and sister are able to describe what happened (event B); Her sister sees it from a less clinical perspective and thinks she is dying (Event A) >> My dad and sister were able to describe what had happened. …My sister… had seen it from a less clinical perspective and had thought I was dying.

because I stopped breathing and went blue. (this part could have been in the past perfect too but very often you don’t bother to continue using the past perfect once you have made it clear to the reader (or listener) that the even you are talking about is situated in the “past of the past”.

==
You could try and work out the rest of the text and if you have any problems feel free to get back to us.

[tzfujimino]

Originally Posted by naomimalan

You could try and work out the rest of the text and if you have any problems feel free to get back to us.

I'm really impressed with your kindness.
Thank you very much, naomimalan.
Now I've become a big fan of you.

[tzfujimino]

Originally Posted by venkatasu

Please tell how to put it chronologically (may be a little easier) like which event happened first then next such that it would be useful for me

Dear venkatasu

I've tried so hard looking for good materials(lengthy passages) concerning Past Perfect Tense, but I couldn't. I'm really sorry.
Though I myself wrote some sentences with the tense, they might not meet your satisfaction.(They are too easy.)

Naomimalan's passage and her explanation about it are fantastic.
"The past of the past" is the key to understand Past Perfect Tense, I think.
When there are too many P.P.T in the passage(,which I think is rare), look for a sentence with Simple Past Tense. (This is what I do when reading. )
P.P.T shows the event happened before the one with Simple Past Tense.
You don't have to be so nervous worrying about "which past."

My English may not be good enough.(There may be some errors above. If so, please forgive me.)
I hope you can understand what I mean.