Forum newsfeeds 
|  | | Notices | You are welcome to answer questions posted in the Ask a Teacher forum as long as your suggestions, help, and advice reflect a good understanding of the English language. If you are not a teacher, you will need to state that clearly at the top of your post. Please note, all posts are moderated by our in-house language experts, so make sure your suggestions, help, and advice house the kind of information an international language teacher would offer. If not, and your posts do not contribute to the topic in a positive way, they will be subject to deletion. | 
15-Jun-2008, 15:18
| | |  Dummy Pronouns (derogatory?)
A colleague of mine refers to people this way, "Anyone 'that' would like to attend..." rather than saying, "Anyone 'WHO' would like to attend...". I find this annoying, refering to people as inanimate objects. One would not say, "I found one seashell 'WHO' was different from all the rest." How can I explain this? What part of speech is this and why do we consider it wrong? |
15-Jun-2008, 16:23
| | Editor, UsingEnglish.com | | Join Date: Nov 2002 Country: UK
Posts: 25,261
Current Location: Phnom Penh First Language: English Thanks: 2
Thanked 325 Times in 296 Posts
| | Re: Dummy Pronouns (derogatory?)
It's a relative pronoun, though I see no problem with using 'that' for people. (British English speaker) |
15-Jun-2008, 16:25
| | Key Member | | Join Date: Aug 2006 Country: Canada
Posts: 3,025
Current Location: Canada First Language: English Thanks: 4
Thanked 478 Times in 440 Posts
| | Re: Dummy Pronouns (derogatory?)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Unregistered  A colleague of mine refers to people this way, "Anyone 'that' would like to attend..." rather than saying, "Anyone 'WHO' would like to attend...". I find this annoying, refering to people as inanimate objects. One would not say, "I found one seashell 'WHO' was different from all the rest." How can I explain this? What part of speech is this and why do we consider it wrong? | Some consider it wrong but that doesn't make it wrong, Unreg.
That's John over there. And that's Melanie there.
While it can be argued that 'who' is more polite, it doesn't then follow that by using 'that', a speaker intends to be impolite. | | The Following User Says Thank You to riverkid For This Useful Post: | |
15-Jun-2008, 22:14
|  | Moderator | | Join Date: Feb 2003 Country: USA
Posts: 13,364
Current Location: North Carolina First Language: English Thanks: 73
Thanked 841 Times in 753 Posts
| | Re: Dummy Pronouns (derogatory?)
I second what the other posters have said. There is nothing wrong with using "that" to refer to a person. It's not derogatory, and it's not impolite. I'll let Google help me find a few uses of it. Results 1 - 10 of about 237,000,000 for the man that.
the man that - Google Search
Results 1 - 10 of about 396,000 for "the man that".
"the man that" - Google Search
It's been used that way for a while. See: http://www.gutenberg.org/etext/3251
and
The Man That Was Used Up - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
__________________
~R | | The Following User Says Thank You to RonBee For This Useful Post: | |
15-Jun-2008, 22:21
| | Moderator | | Join Date: Feb 2003 Country: USA
Posts: 13,364
Current Location: North Carolina First Language: English Thanks: 73
Thanked 841 Times in 753 Posts
| | Re: Dummy Pronouns (derogatory?)
Then there's Yahoo. 1 - 10 of 9,550,000 for "the man that"
"the man that" - Yahoo! Search Results=
One more example: How do you shop for the man that has everything?
Implolite? I don't think so.
__________________
~R
Last edited by RonBee; 15-Jun-2008 at 22:48.
Reason: punctuation
| | The Following User Says Thank You to RonBee For This Useful Post: | |
15-Jun-2008, 22:25
| | Key Member | | Join Date: Aug 2006 Country: Canada
Posts: 3,025
Current Location: Canada First Language: English Thanks: 4
Thanked 478 Times in 440 Posts
| | Re: Dummy Pronouns (derogatory?)
Quote:
Originally Posted by RonBee | Just wonderin', Ron, how come the same search turned up two way different numbers.  |
15-Jun-2008, 22:47
| | Moderator | | Join Date: Feb 2003 Country: USA
Posts: 13,364
Current Location: North Carolina First Language: English Thanks: 73
Thanked 841 Times in 753 Posts
| | Re: Dummy Pronouns (derogatory?)
Quote:
Originally Posted by riverkid Just wonderin', Ron, how come the same search turned up two way different numbers. | Putting "the man that" in quotes made a lot of difference. (Note that the Mark Twain story was written in the nineteenth century.)
__________________
~R | | The Following User Says Thank You to RonBee For This Useful Post: | |
15-Jun-2008, 22:55
| | Key Member | | Join Date: Aug 2006 Country: Canada
Posts: 3,025
Current Location: Canada First Language: English Thanks: 4
Thanked 478 Times in 440 Posts
| | Re: Dummy Pronouns (derogatory?)
Quote:
Originally Posted by RonBee Putting "the man that" in quotes made a lot of difference. (Note that the Mark Twain story was written in the nineteenth century.) | Oh, I see. Have you ever tried the Google "exact phrase" search option? It comes complete with a regional option, ie. the USA, the UK, Canada, etc. | | The Following User Says Thank You to riverkid For This Useful Post: | |
16-Jun-2008, 00:34
| | Moderator | | Join Date: Feb 2003 Country: USA
Posts: 13,364
Current Location: North Carolina First Language: English Thanks: 73
Thanked 841 Times in 753 Posts
| | Re: Dummy Pronouns (derogatory?)
Quote:
Originally Posted by riverkid Oh, I see. Have you ever tried the Google "exact phrase" search option? It comes complete with a regional option, ie. the USA, the UK, Canada, etc. | No, I don't think I know how to do that. 
__________________
~R |
16-Jun-2008, 01:23
| | Key Member | | Join Date: Aug 2006 Country: Canada
Posts: 3,025
Current Location: Canada First Language: English Thanks: 4
Thanked 478 Times in 440 Posts
| | Re: Dummy Pronouns (derogatory?)
Quote:
Originally Posted by RonBee No, I don't think I know how to do that. | Piece of cake, Ron.
1. Go to Google.com
2. Click on "Advanced Search"
3. Type what you want into the "this exact wording or phrase:" box.
4. Set your language.
5. Click on, "Date, usage rights, numeric range, and more" to set the region you want and hit ENTER. | | The Following User Says Thank You to riverkid For This Useful Post: | | | Thread Tools | | | | Display Modes |  Linear Mode | 
Posting Rules
| You may post new threads You may not post replies You may not post attachments You may not edit your posts
HTML code is Off | | | All times are GMT. The time now is 05:03. | |
