Use of Present Continuous

[David L.]

Now your juices are going!
Your advice please - should His Lordship commend or sack his butler:
The butler greets you at the door of the country home of Lord and Lady Smythe, who have invited you to dinner, and ushers you into the library where you partake of (=join in/have/also drink) sherry.
A little later, the butler enters, and solemnly says:
"Dinner is being served." (The butler knows not to preface every announcement with a boring 'Your Lordship" or 'Your ladyship" or such.)

Thumbs up...or thumbs down? And why?

You are on a cruise, and you think the late sitting is at 8 p.m. There are people still in the dining room. Are they for the late sitting and you've got it wrong - late sitting started at 7.45? Or are they stragglers* from the 6 p.m. sitting? You tell the assistant Maitre d' at the door to the onboard restaurant you are here for the late sitting. He says, "Yes Sir/Madam. Dinner is served."

Does his English match the aplomb (=self-confidence or assurance, esp. when in a demanding situation) with which he greets dinners?
Or is it back to washing the pots and pans? And why ...or why not?

Careful - think of what posters so far have suggested: both of them are to do with static versus dynamic, right now versus continuing, 'at this moment' versus 'going on'.

to michelle: you have given a very interesting sentence. I won't forget. I'll get back to that one! Thank you.
* stragglers: those who are moving (in this case eating) more slowly than most and so fall behind the main group (who have finished and so left the restaurant.) A typical Aussie term used about sheep and cattle, but actually from Late Middle English.

[tzfujimino]

Originally Posted by David L.

Now your juices are going!
Your advice please - should His Lordship commend or sack his butler:
The butler greets you at the door of the country home of Lord and Lady Smythe, who have invited you to dinner, and ushers you into the library where you partake of (=join in/have/also drink) sherry.
A little later, the butler enters, and solemnly says:
"Dinner is being served." (The butler knows not to preface every announcement with a boring 'Your Lordship" or 'Your ladyship" or such.)

Thumbs up...or thumbs down? And why?

You are on a cruise, and you think the late sitting is at 8 p.m. There are people still in the dining room. Are they for the late sitting and you've got it wrong - late sitting started at 7.45? Or are they stragglers* from the 6 p.m. sitting? You tell the assistant Maitre d' at the door to the onboard restaurant you are here for the late sitting. He says, "Yes Sir/Madam. Dinner is served."

Does his English match the aplomb (=self-confidence or assurance, esp. when in a demanding situation) with which he greets dinners?
Or is it back to washing the pots and pans? And why ...or why not?

Careful - think of what posters so far have suggested: both of them are to do with static versus dynamic, right now versus continuing, 'at this moment' versus 'going on'.

to michelle: you have given a very interesting sentence. I won't forget. I'll get back to that one! Thank you.
* stragglers: those who are moving (in this case eating) more slowly than most and so fall behind the main group (who have finished and so left the restaurant.) A typical Aussie term used about sheep and cattle, but actually from Late Middle English.

"Dinner is being served."
sounds(to me) like..."Dinner is going to be served." So...it might refer to the "near-future" action.(Maybe plates of food are being brought now...I'm not sure about it..)
I'm afraid I don't know whether or not it's polite.

"Yes Sir/Madam. Dinner is served."
sounds like..."Yes....Dinner is served as planned.(I know your late sitting is at 8 p.m.)" It's like on the time-table, as in "The train leaves at 10:15."
I can't really answer your question...(I don't really understand your question.)

[David L.]

An English butler should speak perfect English.
The butler says, "Dinner is being served."
His Lordship says, "Oh? To whom? And at what time did you start?"

Does that give you a clue?

We are trying to understand what the tense of a verb tells us; and what a speaker is trying to say when he uses a particular tense.
We are not talking politeness, as in "Could I..." versus "Can I..."

[philadelphia]

Originally Posted by David L.

Now your juices are going!
Your advice please - should His Lordship commend or sack his butler:
The butler greets you at the door of the country home of Lord and Lady Smythe, who have invited you to dinner, and ushers you into the library where you partake of (=join in/have/also drink) sherry.
A little later, the butler enters, and solemnly says:
"Dinner is being served." (The butler knows not to preface every announcement with a boring 'Your Lordship" or 'Your ladyship" or such.)

Thumbs up...or thumbs down? And why?

--
[/\That was used at my home when my mum was being served the dinner - even though we should not compare English and French because of there is no present continous in this latter except en train de (v+ing) which is very rarely used (not used in that case but meaning the same).


However, it would not be proper to say "Dinner is being served" due to first this sounds to me too much familiar and secondly this may imply that the serving of the dinner is not totally finished and thereby would be a stuff unfinished. Knowing Lordship demands the best from his butler, so that might be awkward of talking from that manner.


Nonetheless, "Dinner is being served" might inccidentally mean that the dinner is at its commencement.. In fact, non-natives may be confused by that.


By the way, there are some usages of the present continuous that would like to be used to show out the effort that made the butler [to bring the dinner to the table eg].


Therefore, the butler might well be sacked - at a guess though/\]
--

You are on a cruise, and you think the late sitting is at 8 p.m. There are people still in the dining room. Are they for the late sitting and you've got it wrong - late sitting started at 7.45? Or are they stragglers* from the 6 p.m. sitting? You tell the assistant Maitre d' at the door to the onboard restaurant you are here for the late sitting. He says, "Yes Sir/Madam. Dinner is served."

Does his English match the aplomb (=self-confidence or assurance, esp. when in a demanding situation) with which he greets dinners?
Or is it back* to washing the pots and pans? And why ...or why not?

--
[Profoundly difficult to say again. I may not guess because there are a lot of things that would take me into the dinner is served meaning the serving is finished - and why not, waiters would come back* to serve - and others that would carry until the dinner is served meaning the dinner is still served at the moment, you have all at your proposals.]
--

Careful - think of what posters so far have suggested: both of them are to do with static versus dynamic, right now versus continuing, 'at this moment' versus 'going on'.

--
[I would like it to be so easy but do not think so, at all. Lots of things cannot be solved and this might well be so.]
--

to michelle: you have given a very interesting sentence. I won't forget. I'll get back to that one! Thank you.
* stragglers: those who are moving (in this case eating) more slowly than most and so fall behind the main group (who have finished and so left the restaurant.) A typical Aussie term used about sheep and cattle, but actually from Late Middle English.

By the way, I have to say that have never been in an English country. So I definitely do not know the customs of your countries and could well get wrong at all points.

[David L.]

Now I think I understand why so many posters have trouble with tenses! They are bringing all sorts of other factors into it.
BUT - We are considering JUST the MEANING when a particular verb tense is used.

Respondents are wondering about politeness, over-familiarity on the part of the butler, how much effort the butler is showing (bringing the food to the table), how helpful waiters are or are not, and English customs and the way we do things. All of this will just confuse you. So -

Let me tell you what these two tenses mean to me when someone uses the Present versus the Present Continuous (stripped of English customs and politeness):

Climate is affected by global warming.
Climate is being affected by global warming.

"Climate is affected by global warming."
This is a simple statement of a fact. The climate of a country is determined by factors such as geographical location in the world, height above sea level, whether the country is far inland or on the coast...and global warming. This is as simple a statement of fact as 'he is drunk', that is,
"He is affected by alcohol." Right now, as I look at him, at this very moment, I see the signs and assert this. The tense does NOT tell me anything about 5 minutes or an hour ago, or about in 5 minutes or an hour's time. The fact that he must have been drinking BEFORE, and that he will sober up in a little while, is because we know about the effects of alcohol. The tense tells me nothing about any 'process' of getting drunk.

"Climate is being affected by global warming."
"The house is painted." - fact
"The house is being painted." Here, the tense tells us that a 'process' IS going on. In the first statement, all the painting is finished. In the second, the tense tells me they have started to paint the house but have not finished yet - it is in the process of being painted.
So - in the sentence, "Climate is being affected.." the tense tells me that a period of global warming is actually in progress.
We need to be careful here: all we know from the tense is that 'it has begun to happen', so it started in the past; but we don't know how long ago in the past. With global warming, it started decades ago. A teenager drinking Scotch for 10 minues and we see, 'he is being affected..'. Pick up a paint brush and put one stroke of paint on the house and we can say, 'the house is being painted' - the process has begun, and started seconds ago.

And what of 'dinner is being served'? The tense tells us that the process of serving dinner has begun. How would you react if you were asking for a table at a restaurant, and the man says, "Yes. Please come this way. Your dinner is being served." Hang on. We haven't sat down and ordered yet, and they're bring our food to the table!

And sack the butler.
His statement is saying that cook or whoever has begun dishing out the food, and plates of food are being placed on the table when there's nobody in the dining room yet. The process of serving the food has begun, and the tense would imply that this 'serving' will continue until the last course has been served...regardless of whether any of the guests are there to eat it!

What questions do you have about this? What is still unclear?

[michelle.siel]

It’s very easy to follow and understand your examples but when it comes to use them in day to day situation is a bit difficult.

I had to answer to phone the other day and I said:

I’m afraid I can’t put you through; my boss is in a meeting.

But shouldn’t I have said:

Sorry, my boss is being in a meeting. It doesn’t sound correct to me but isn’t this something that has started and is still in progress?

[tzfujimino]

Originally Posted by David L.

Your advice please - should His Lordship commend or sack his butler:
(The butler knows not to preface every announcement with a boring 'Your Lordship" or 'Your ladyship" or such.)
Thumbs up...or thumbs down? And why?

Maitre d'

Thank you, David.
First of all, from the context you'd given above, I thought it was a matter of rudeness or politeness. It was confusing(misleading) to me.

I completely understand what you say in the last post of yours.
So...what should the butler say in that case?
What about the other one? Is the Maitre d' right in saying that?

[David L.]

michelle: Thank you! This is why I started this thread, so we can start with something basic, and then see where all the confusion comes in.

"My boss is in a meeting." Simple statement of fact.

'Being in a meeting' does mean a process is going on: the conducting of this meeting, for however long it takes. But everything happens over/takes a certain amount of time, and we don't use one of the Continuous tenses to point this out about every situation, everything that happens in life. Otherwise, every time we used a verb it would be in some form of a Continuous tense.
You are actually stating a fact: he is not available to take your call at this very moment because at this very moment he is busy. He is not here. He is in a meeting.
Compare:
"My boss is being elusive(=difficult to find, catch). I've been trying to find him all morning. I think he's in a meeting."
How does that help the confusion?

tzfujimino: The maitre d' should have said, "Dinner is being served." All the passengers do not have to sit down together at precisely 8 p.m. and then they serve dinner. People can walk in between 8-8.30p.m. They will find some people well into their meal; and late-comers like themselves will be served their first course. The process of serving people their dinner began at 8p.m.-it is in progress - and will continue till the restaurant closes.

Let's continue, keeping things simple:
I brush my teeth.
I am brushing my teeth.

Is the difference between the sentences any clearer?

[michelle.siel]

Thank you David for your comprehensive answer. In your example I see the diference like this:
I brush my teeth– a statement of a fact, a routine that I do every day
I am brushing my teeth at this moment - an ongoing/ temporary situation.

So if I say
I’m afraid he can’t answer he is engaged (on the other line) – is correct but

I’m afraid he can’t answer he is being engaged - even if this is also an ongoing/ temporary situation is wrong.

[tzfujimino]

Originally Posted by David L.

Let's continue, keeping things simple:
I brush my teeth.
I am brushing my teeth.

Is the difference between the sentences any clearer?

Thank you for the detailed explanation, David.
Yes, they are crystal-clear to me.