Go Back   UsingEnglish.com ESL Forum > Learning English > Ask a Teacher


Like Tree6Likes
  • 1 Post By bhaisahab
  • 1 Post By RonBee
  • 2 Post By Barb_D
  • 1 Post By susiedqq
  • 1 Post By bhaisahab

Closed Thread
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 02-Jan-2009, 15:02
Ducklet Cat's Avatar
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 280
Home Country: Kuwait
Native Language: Arabic
Current Location: Kuwait
Member Type: Interested in Language
Smile Sun, Sand, and Sea. The final Comma!

Which is more correct:

1. Sun, Sand, and Sea.

2. Sun, Sand and Sea.

I think number 1 is, because not putting a comma makes sand and sea one thing as opposed to sun. While putting a comma after each one shows that each of the three has its own entity.

Someone told me, that you don't have to be so accurate, and people are used in English to not putting a comma before the last "and" in a phrase like this one.

Then this example came to my mind:

Coke, burger, fish, and chips
Coke, burger, fish and chips, and smoothie

"Fish, and chips" are just two different thing
while "fish and chips" is a plate on its own.


So, what do you think? Do you agree to my point to f view that a comma is a must before the final and?

Thanks
  #2  
Old 02-Jan-2009, 15:06
bhaisahab's Avatar
Moderator
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 14,833
Home Country: England
Native Language: British English
Current Location: England
Member Type: English Teacher
Default Re: Sun, Sand, and Sea. The final Comma!

No, I don't agree, it should be 'Sun, sand and sea.'
  #3  
Old 02-Jan-2009, 17:44
RonBee's Avatar
Moderator
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Posts: 16,539
Home Country: United States
Native Language: American English
Current Location: United States
Member Type: Other
Default Re: Sun, Sand, and Sea. The final Comma!

There was the sun, the sand, and the sea. And there was you and me.


  #4  
Old 02-Jan-2009, 20:21
Barb_D's Avatar
Moderator
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 10,614
Home Country: United States
Native Language: American English
Current Location: United States
Member Type: Other
Default Re: Sun, Sand, and Sea. The final Comma!

That final comma, before the "and" is called the serial or Oxford comma. I always use it.

It's a matter of style whether to use it or not when you have a simple list like yours. Just be consistent. Don't say I love the sand, sea, and salt of the ocean in one place and then say I visited Italy, Grecece and Turkey in the next place.

Sometimes it adds clarity. Say that "peas and carrots" is one dish.
My favorite vegetables are corn, peas and carrots, and yellow squash.

In this case, the final comma adds clarity.
  #5  
Old 03-Jan-2009, 01:48
Key Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 2,938
Home Country: United States
Native Language: English
Current Location: United States
Member Type: Academic
Default Re: Sun, Sand, and Sea. The final Comma!

Toast, bacon and eggs.
  #6  
Old 03-Jan-2009, 08:47
Ducklet Cat's Avatar
Member
Threadstarter  
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 280
Home Country: Kuwait
Native Language: Arabic
Current Location: Kuwait
Member Type: Interested in Language
Default Re: Sun, Sand, and Sea. The final Comma!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Barb_D View Post
That final comma, before the "and" is called the serial or Oxford comma. I always use it.

It's a matter of style whether to use it or not when you have a simple list like yours. Just be consistent. Don't say I love the sand, sea, and salt of the ocean in one place and then say I visited Italy, Grecece and Turkey in the next place.

Sometimes it adds clarity. Say that "peas and carrots" is one dish.
My favorite vegetables are corn, peas and carrots, and yellow squash.

In this case, the final comma adds clarity.
Thanks :)
  #7  
Old 03-Jan-2009, 12:38
bhaisahab's Avatar
Moderator
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 14,833
Home Country: England
Native Language: British English
Current Location: England
Member Type: English Teacher
Default Re: Sun, Sand, and Sea. The final Comma!

The serial comma (also known as the Oxford comma or Harvard comma) is the comma used immediately before a grammatical conjunction (nearly always and or or; sometimes nor) that precedes the last item in a list of three or more items. The phrase "Portugal, Spain, and France", for example, is written with the serial comma, while "Portugal, Spain and France", identical in meaning, is written without it.[1][2][3]
There is no global consensus among writers or editors on the use of the serial comma.[4] Most authorities on American English recommend its use, but it is not so frequently used in British English (see extended treatment below, including a survey of published recommendations in Usage and subsequent sections). In many languages (e.g., French,[5] Italian,[6] Polish,[7] Spanish[8]) the serial comma is not normally used, although it may be employed in cases where it aids clarity or the prosody to be used when reading.


From Wikipedia.
  #8  
Old 03-Jan-2009, 13:17
Ducklet Cat's Avatar
Member
Threadstarter  
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 280
Home Country: Kuwait
Native Language: Arabic
Current Location: Kuwait
Member Type: Interested in Language
Default Re: Sun, Sand, and Sea. The final Comma!

Thanks everyone.
Thanks a lot bhaisahab.
Closed Thread

Bookmarks


Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off



All times are GMT. The time now is 17:44.



Content Relevant URLs by vBSEO ©2011, Crawlability, Inc.