[Grammar] Conditional: if + past or present?

[Jaskin]

Hello,

As a learner I may make mistakes. may I ?

Only If I win/won the lottery... is a conditional clause; the following are just time clauses:

But since winning the lottery is not the same as, say doing one's homework, it's really hard to consider it a conditional aspect.

I don't know the terminology but the “will” was used in all the examples. As far as I understand modal verbs, especially will, are all about likelihood. So we have the time at which something happens, the likelihood – it still seems to me to be a kind of condition, whether it's classified as a conditional clause or a time clause.

"If it had been fine tomorrow, I would have gone camping.”

Because of the very high remoteness of past perfect it sounds extremely pessimistic. The tomorrow's plan are now my very past plans. From the speaker perspective the tomorrow's rain it's a fact, so the nice weather and camping is entirely counterfactual.


Cheers,

[David L.]

engee: I daresay you're wrong about it, David. In conditional sentences of that sort you don't use when in place of if, never!

Read what Jaskin stated: it is no longer conditional - He IS going to win.
Jaskin:but when i want to express my strong belief that i am very certain that i will win the lottery, can i say:

"if i win the lottery, i will buy a car"?

He still casts the sentiment as a conditional clause, but where is the 'if it happens'' when something is 'very certain'?

[Luizao]

Pleeeeeeeeeease!

"If it was fine tomorrow, I'd go camping" - This is a perfectly acceptable sentence. It's a second conditional as its refferring to an unlikely, hypothetical situation tomorrow.
I'm sure or pretty sure it won't be fine tomorrow BUT if it were...

What would be even better would be to replace "was" for "were" because when we are talking about wishes and conditionals we tend to prefer saying; "I were".

The only way/context you could use the third conditional here (which is used to talk about hypothetical situations IN THE PAST) ;
is if you consider "The weather forecast you watched A FEW MINUTES AGO" as the focal point here.


If it had been a fine day tomorrow (on the weather forecast I watched 10 miutes AGO), I would have gone camping

OH and.... "When/Once I win the lottery.." is DEFINITELY NOT a conditional... Wheres the condition? It's a certainty

[Jaskin]

Hello,
Just a learner opinion.
May I ?

Originally Posted by Luizao

OH and.... "When/Once I win the lottery.." is DEFINITELY NOT a conditional... Wheres the condition? It's a certainty

Where is the condition ? I see the condition in the co-occurrence of the two events. And, of course, I'm certain what I do when (or if, once, only if, assuming ..... etc. ) the first one occur.
1. The one is factual :

• If I win the lottery, I buy a car.

2. That predictive :

• When I win the lottery I'll buy a car.

3. That hypothetical:

• If I won the lottery I'd buy a car.

4. That counterfactual:

• If I had won the lottery I'd have bought a car.

That is how I so far understand conditional statements.

Or talking the overused example :
If you heat water to a hundred degree it starts boiling.
When you heat water to a hundred degree it starts boiling.
Once you heat water to a hundred degree it starts boiling.

Cheers

[Luizao]

Hey,

1) That first one,
doesn't it sound to you as though you win the lottery more than once?
and every time you do win, you buy a new car.

as in, If/when I watch horror movies, I have nightmares (any time I do)
If/when I cut onions, I cry (any time I do)

*saying "when" here suggests it is something you do sometimes maybe because its your, life whatever...

*saying "if" doesn't really tell me whether you do watch horror films or cut onions. Unlike "when" which tells me you probably do or have to sometimes.

If I win the lottery, I buy a car is a zero conditional. Facts/ constant certainties. It's always true.

If you want to talk about an en event in the future or near future you could use;

A) A first conditional
If I win the lottery, I'll buy a car.
This implies that you think there is a realistic chance that you might
win the lottery (condition)
and if you do you will definitely buy a car (real result)

*If you use "when" then that implies that you completely expect to win
the lottery. Perhaps you already know the winning numbers before the
draw!!

B) A second conditional
If I won the lottery, I'd buy a car
This implies that you don't really expect/think you have a realistic
chance of winning (condition)
but imagining/dreaming that you did you would buy a car.
This is a hypothetical situation. Youre "daydreaming".
Because this isnt a certainty-youre just dreaming- you can't use
"when"

That's the way I think of it, at least

[bhaisahab]

I am sorry to say this again, but angels and pinheads come to mind.