[Grammar] Took the/a wrong bus

[Soup]

Originally Posted by BobK

And indeed the term "idiotism" - bearing in mind that the user is probably a fluent French speaker.

b

Ahem:

Id´i`ot`ism
n.1. An idiom; a form, mode of expression, or signification, peculiar to a language. Scholars sometimes give terminations and idiotisms, suitable to their native language, unto words newly invented.- M. Hale.

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From a fluent French speaker, who happens to be a linguist.

[Monticello]

Originally Posted by Tdol

PS Could we go easy on terms like infantile and slippery? Thanks

- Point taken. Will observe it.

[Monticello]

Originally Posted by Soup

Ahem:

Id´i`ot`ism
n.1. An idiom; a form, mode of expression, or signification, peculiar to a language. Scholars sometimes give terminations and idiotisms, suitable to their native language, unto words newly invented.- M. Hale.

_______________________
From a fluent French speaker, who happens to be a linguist.

Yes.

Then there is a secondary, disparaging meaning (see also: this link, and numerous other online sources ), spoofed here in the online Urban Dictionary (is the slang dictionary you wrote. Define your world) : idiotism

When one does not intend such disparagement -- more likely more often than not --- all are probably better served by the more modern usage.

[BobK]

Originally Posted by Soup

Ahem:

Id´i`ot`ism
n.1. An idiom; a form, mode of expression, or signification, peculiar to a language. Scholars sometimes give terminations and idiotisms, suitable to their native language, unto words newly invented.- M. Hale.

_______________________
From a fluent French speaker, who happens to be a linguist.

Indeed; I wasn't suggesting it was a mistake; just that it was a choice that probably owed more to its user's linguistic background than to any ulterior motive. And, come to think of it, because of the Francophone background in Canada, the rather archaic (in Br English) version of "idiom" may be more current.

But this is just pursuing a further tangent from the OP, so I'll button my lip.

b

[Snappy]

I think the discussion is taking a wrong turn.

American Heritage Dictionary shows the following two examples:

take a wrong turn

make a wrong move

Then what is the difference between "take a wrong turn" and "take the wrong turn"?
Is the following interpretation okay?

1. You made a wrong turn. (= I don't think your turn is right though I don't have a right turn in mind.)
2. You made the wrong turn. (= I don't think your turn is right. I have the right turn in mind.)

Then "I took the wrong bus." seems to occur more often because at that moment I thought of the right bus in mind.

[konungursvia]

To me, Snappy, it seems to be this way:

"I made a wrong turn" might mean I got lost but I don't know which turn was wrong. Also, many native speakers have said they don't think this one sounds natural.

"I made the wrong turn" seems to mean I made a mistake but now have deduced which turn was wrong.

This is just how it sounds to me.

[Monticello]

Originally Posted by konungursvia

To me, Snappy, it seems to be this way:

"I made a wrong turn" might mean I got lost but I don't know which turn was wrong. Also, many native speakers have said they don't think this one sounds natural.

"I made the wrong turn" seems to mean I made a mistake but now have deduced which turn was wrong.

This is just how it sounds to me.

When " 'nuff said" turns not to be enough,
Perhaps it's time then to put the snuff
To musings and triflings,
And turn the face toward blessings --
Those things beyond rebuff.

[Soup]

Originally Posted by Monticello

Yes.

Then there is a secondary, disparaging meaning (see also: this link, and numerous other online sources ), spoofed here in the online Urban Dictionary (is the slang dictionary you wrote. Define your world) : idiotism

When one does not intend such disparagement -- more likely more often than not --- all are probably better served by the more modern usage.

In all fairness, Monticello, the secondary meaning doesn't come into play here:

... "the wrong bus" is in fact a fixed phrase, a common idiotism, ...

Or is it that the phrase "the wrong bus" is in some way being disparaged? Help.

[Soup]

Originally Posted by Snappy

Then "I took the wrong bus" seems to occur more often because at that moment I thought of the right bus in mind.

. That's right, and the reason is because you defined the bus. Use 'the' for known things:

Ex: I took a wrong turn somewhere.
Ex: I took the wrong turn back there.

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Snappy-san, watakushi no posuto #28 yonde kudasai.

[Pedroski]

Talk about wrong turns! This thread sort of took one! Seems the/a bus ran over a lot of egos!