[Grammar] A question about present perfect tense

[simplebeing]

It is said that some verbs can't be used for sent perfect tense. For instance, the following sentences are wrong.

1. He has died for 3 three years.
2. He has arrived for 2 hours.

If the above sentences are not correct, can someone tell me what other verbs can't be used for present perfect tense? Or, where can I find those verbs?

In addition, even though the above verbs can't be used for present perfect, but it seems that they can go with negative sentences and questions. Is that right? For instance, one still can say:

1. He hasn't died yet, has he?
2. Has he died yet?
3. He hasn't arrived yet.
4. Has he arrived yet?

Thank you for your help with my above question!

[Soup]

Originally Posted by simplebeing

It is said that some verbs can't be used for sent perfect tense. For instance, the following sentences are wrong.

1. He has died for 3 three years.
2. He has arrived for 2 hours.

It's the time adverbials "for three years" and "for 2 hours" that are incompatible.

1. He has died.
2. He has arrived.

The present perfect expresses an indefinite past.

'The Indefinite Past does not tell you exactly when [something happened; e.g.,] at six o'clock this morning / three hours ago. [Those are] Incompatible with Present Perfect.'

Adverbials occuring with the Past Simple but precluding the Present Perfect: A WEEK AGO, EARLIER THIS YEAR, LAST MONDAY, THE OTHER DAY, YESTERDAY EVENING.

Adverbials which are most likely found in the Past Simple but can occur in an indefinite or iterative sense in the Present Perfect: AT FOUR O'CLOCK, IN THE MORNING, ON TUESDAY, THEN, SOON, NEXT, AFTER BREAKFAST. I've always done my HW in the evenings.

Adverbials which may accompany the Present Perfect but not the Past Simple include FOR THE PRESENT, FOR NOW, FOR THE TIME BEING.
Adverbials which are normally associated with the Present Perfect as opposed to the Past Simple, are SO FAR, UP TO NOW, HITHERTO, SINCE THURSDAY, SINCE I MET HER and LATELY & LATTERLY (recent indefinite past)

The group of adverbials which combine with either Present Perfect or Past Simple is interesting in so far as it indicates cases where the two tenses are interchangeable as well as instances where the actual meaning depends on the tense.

ALWAYS, EVER and NEVER can be used either with the Present Perfect or Past Simple: I've always said / I always said. He's always been a liar / He always was a liar.

NOW & ONCE: Now I've nearly finished my tea. Now it was nearly dark (for "then). I've visited Toledo once / Once I was innocent (at one time). Meaning change.

ALREADY, STILL, YET & BEFORE relate to point of orientation "now" when used with the Present Perfect and "then" when used with the Past Simple.

I've already finished it (as early as now) / I was already very tired (as early as then).

Syntax and semantics - English verb tenses and their uses

_______________________________

The adverb yet is compatible with the present perfect:

1. He hasn't died yet, has he?
2. Has he died yet?
3. He hasn't arrived yet.
4. Has he arrived yet?

[Raymott]

simplebeing wrote:

It is said that some verbs can't be used for present perfect tense.
Who said that? I can't think of any verbs that can't be used with the present perfect.

For instance, the following sentences are wrong.
1. He has died for 3 three years.
2. He has arrived for 2 hours.
Yes they are. But "He has died" and "He has arrived" both use the present perfect tense, and are both right.

If the above sentences are not correct, can someone tell me what other verbs can't be used for present perfect tense? Or, where can I find those verbs?
The fact that the sentences are incorrect does not imply that there are verbs which can't be used with the present perfect tense, because that's not why they're wrong.

In addition, even though the above verbs can't be used for present perfect, but it seems that they can go with negative sentences and questions. Is that right? For instance, one still can say:

1. He hasn't died yet, has he?
2. Has he died yet?
3. He hasn't arrived yet.
4. Has he arrived yet?
These are all correct. The following are all wrong:
1. He hasn't died yesterday, has he?
2. Has he died at 2 o'clock yet?
3. He hasn't arrived 2 hours ago yet.
4. Has he arrived tomorrow yet?

In other words, what is making the sentences wrong is not the verbs or the tense, but using the present perfect with those time phrases.

[David L.]

1. He has died for 3 three years.
2. He has arrived for 2 hours.

The verbs themselves are quite correct. The problem is, the sentences give a definite time period - 'for 3 years', 'for 2 hours'. Present Perfect tense indicates some unspecified, indefinite period, starting in the past, and continuing to this moment.
So -"he has arrived" This means, he arrived (we don't know if this was 5 minutes ago, or yesterday, or last week) and so has been here since he arrived. We indicate that period of time from the moment he arrived in the past, to now, with Present Perfect tense.

3. He hasn't arrived yet.
This is correct because, he seems to have been expected to arrive some time in the past, and some time has gone by which brings us up to this moment; and as of this moment 'he still hasn't arrived' = 'he hasn't arrived yet'.

[Viviana C. Ribichich]

Originally Posted by Raymott

simplebeing wrote:

It is said that some verbs can't be used for present perfect tense.
Who said that? I can't think of any verbs that can't be used with the present perfect.

For instance, the following sentences are wrong.
1. He has died for 3 three years.
2. He has arrived for 2 hours.
Yes they are. But "He has died" and "He has arrived" both use the present perfect tense, and are both right.

If the above sentences are not correct, can someone tell me what other verbs can't be used for present perfect tense? Or, where can I find those verbs?
The fact that the sentences are incorrect does not imply that there are verbs which can't be used with the present perfect tense, because that's not why they're wrong.

In addition, even though the above verbs can't be used for present perfect, but it seems that they can go with negative sentences and questions. Is that right? For instance, one still can say:

1. He hasn't died yet, has he?
2. Has he died yet?
3. He hasn't arrived yet.
4. Has he arrived yet?
These are all correct. The following are all wrong:
1. He hasn't died yesterday, has he?
2. Has he died at 2 o'clock yet?
3. He hasn't arrived 2 hours ago yet.
4. Has he arrived tomorrow yet?

In other words, what is making the sentences wrong is not the verbs or the tense, but using the present perfect with those time phrases.

I think that what is making the sentences wrong is not the present perfect with those time phrases (you can say "I have studied English for three years." or "I have watched TV for two hours."), but using the present perfect with "die" or "arrive".

Cordially,

Viviana

teacher

[Raymott]

Originally Posted by Viviana C. Ribichich

I think that what is making the sentences wrong is not the present perfect with those time phrases (you can say "I have studied English for three years." or "I have watched TV for two hours."), but using the present perfect with "die" or "arrive".

Cordially,

Viviana

teacher

You may think that, but both David L and I have already proven that not to be the case by using the verbs "die" and "arrive" correctly with the present perfect tense. It is the type of time phrases that are making the sentences wrong. In case you haven't read the thread here are some correct sentences again:
1. He hasn't died yet, has he?
2. Has he died yet?
3. He hasn't arrived yet.
4. Has he arrived yet?
5. I have arrived.

Are you saying these are incorrect?

[Viviana C. Ribichich]

Originally Posted by Raymott

simplebeing wrote:

It is said that some verbs can't be used for present perfect tense.
Who said that? I can't think of any verbs that can't be used with the present perfect.

For instance, the following sentences are wrong.
1. He has died for 3 three years.
2. He has arrived for 2 hours.
Yes they are. But "He has died" and "He has arrived" both use the present perfect tense, and are both right.

If the above sentences are not correct, can someone tell me what other verbs can't be used for present perfect tense? Or, where can I find those verbs?
The fact that the sentences are incorrect does not imply that there are verbs which can't be used with the present perfect tense, because that's not why they're wrong.

In addition, even though the above verbs can't be used for present perfect, but it seems that they can go with negative sentences and questions. Is that right? For instance, one still can say:

1. He hasn't died yet, has he?
2. Has he died yet?
3. He hasn't arrived yet.
4. Has he arrived yet?
These are all correct. The following are all wrong:
1. He hasn't died yesterday, has he?
2. Has he died at 2 o'clock yet?
3. He hasn't arrived 2 hours ago yet.
4. Has he arrived tomorrow yet?

In other words, what is making the sentences wrong is not the verbs or the tense, but using the present perfect with those time phrases.

Hello again.

The conclusion should be:
What is making the sentences wrong is not the verbs or the tense, but using "die" or "arrive" with those time phrases. If you say "using the present perfect with those time phrases", this is not true because you can use the present perfect with those time phrases: I have studied English for three years or I have watched TV for two hours.

Cordially,

Viviana
Teacher

[Viviana C. Ribichich]

Originally Posted by Raymott

You may think that, but both David L and I have already proven that not to be the case by using the verbs "die" and "arrive" correctly with the present perfect tense. It is the type of time phrases that are making the sentences wrong. In case you haven't read the thread here are some correct sentences again:
1. He hasn't died yet, has he?
2. Has he died yet?
3. He hasn't arrived yet.
4. Has he arrived yet?
5. I have arrived.

Are you saying these are incorrect?

By no means. How could I say so?

Cordially,

Viviana

[Viviana C. Ribichich]

Originally Posted by Viviana C. Ribichich

Hello again.

The conclusion should be:
What is making the sentences wrong is not the verbs or the tense, but using "die" or "arrive" with those time phrases. If you say "using the present perfect with those time phrases", this is not true because you can use the present perfect with those time phrases: I have studied English for three years or I have watched TV for two hours.

Cordially,

Viviana
Teacher

PS:
What is making the sentences wrong is not the verbs or the tense, but using "die" or "arrive" with the present perfect tense together with those time phrases.

[simplebeing]

Dear all,

Thanks so much for your time and helping with my puzzles. After reading all of your explanations, I found:

1. die, arrive can be used with present perfect tense, but not go with adverbials such as "for 2 hours", "for 3 years", "since 2000", "since he was a child." etc.

2. However, some verbs still can go with adverbials such as "I have lived here for 20 years." "He has studied English for 10 years."

3. Thus, according to Point 1 and 2, the attribute and meaning of a verb may decide if it can go with adverbials when it is used with present perfect tense. Am I right?

4. If so, what other verbs are like "die" and "arrive" that can't go with the adverbials starting with "for...." and "since..."? For xample, the verbs "begin", "marry", "become"? Is there a list for this kind of verb?


5.Moreover, what is the rule to categorize a verb that can go with such adverbials or not?

Thanks again for your help.

Simplebeing