(just) as much ... as ... Prescriptive or Descriptive?

Originally Posted by MrPedantic

If a student asked me, I would point out that the 'as much...as it is' construction has an element of redundancy, except in cases such as the one I mentioned earlier.

If the student then said, "Well, MrP, I rather like this construction, and find your approach overly restrictive; so up yours", I would say, Good luck to you, my friend.

MrP

Good approach. Wish there were more like you.

[flcracker]

Part of the decision is a matter of what context overall is being used.

As an English teacher, I like the adjectives and adverbs that paint a better picture of what is being expressed.

As a business person, I want a short, concise statement that takes the least amount of time (and this also has to do with American English more than English English).

[Steven D]

Originally Posted by MrPedantic

If a student asked me, I would point out that the 'as much...as it is' construction has an element of redundancy, except in cases such as the one I mentioned earlier.

If the student then said, "Well, MrP, I rather like this construction, and find your approach overly restrictive; so up yours", I would say, Good luck to you, my friend.

MrP

[First, here's a question. Are you talking about a student growing in an English speaking country? Or are you talking about an ESL/EFL student that wants to learn how to speak English?]

If you are talking about someone growing up in an English speaking country - someone whose first language is English - I should hope that's exactly what he/she says to you. If you're talking about an ESL/EFL student, then it's very unlikely that he/she would say "up yours". However, this student would eventually find out that your pedantic Englsih is different from the English used in the normal world of English language speakers.

www.elllo.org/ - Here, you can listen to different types of English speakers from English speaking countries. This is normal everyday spoken English.

http://www.voanews.com/english/portal.cfm

The VOA site is the news. I don't even think the formality that news language typically adheres to is always as restrictive as pedantic English is. However, we can still view this site as using language that is more formal. The elllo site is normal English, or if you like "informal".

__________________________________________________ ____

Originally Posted by MrPedantic

If a student asked me, I would point out that the 'as much...as it is' construction has an element of redundancy, except in cases such as the one I mentioned earlier.

If the student then said, "Well, MrP, I rather like this construction, and find your approach overly restrictive; so up yours", I would say, Good luck to you, my friend.

MrP

Yes, but would you tell a student "you can't say it because it's wrong".

There is what we say, and there is what we write. There is register. There is formal and informal. There's context.

So, is this a "cannot say" to you? Is the manner in which you speak English really that well controlled? I tend to doubt anyone's spontaneous language conforms to such restrictive views of "ideal language".

[Steven D]

Originally Posted by MrPedantic

If a student asked me, I would point out that the 'as much...as it is' construction has an element of redundancy, except in cases such as the one I mentioned earlier.

If the student then said, "Well, MrP, I rather like this construction, and find your approach overly restrictive; so up yours", I would say, Good luck to you, my friend.

MrP

I think it would be better to explain this in terms of writing as opposed to spoken language.

In writing, one could view it as redundant. In speaking, don't be preocuppied with such things, or you'll drive yourself crazy.

Of course, a formal speech which is prepared is not the same as "speaking English".

[MrPedantic]

Originally Posted by M56

Have you got these the wrong way around?

<1. as...as it is...

2. more...than it is...>

?2. That's even more unnecessary than it is undesirable.

?1. That's as much unnecessary as it is undesirable.

Uh oh.

Sorry.

Thanks for sorting it out...

MrP

[MrPedantic]

First, here's a question. Are you talking about a student growing in an English speaking country? Or are you talking about an ESL/EFL student that wants to learn how to speak English?

I'm talking about a tall, muscular student who obviously works out 20 hours a week. I know my limitations.

If you are talking about someone growing up in an English speaking country - someone whose first language is English - I should hope that's exactly what he/she says to you.

You're right. That'd be the way to conclude a discussion of grammar. I bet Chomsky does it all the time.

If you're talking about an ESL/EFL student, then it's very unlikely that he/she would say "up yours".

Shoot, missed that one...

However, this student would eventually find out that your pedantic Englsih is different from the English used in the normal world of English language speakers.

Too late. I've cashed the cheque. Besides, we had some good times together. She'll forgive me.

Yes, but would you tell a student "you can't say it because it's wrong".

Did I say 'wrong'? Hmm. I thought I said redundant, except in unusual situations.

There is what we say, and there is what we write. There is register. There is formal and informal. There's context.

Agreed x 6.

So, is this a "cannot say" to you?

We make many strange little noises, we featherless bipeds. One more won't hurt.

Is the manner in which you speak English really that well controlled? I tend to doubt anyone's spontaneous language conforms to such restrictive views of "ideal language".

I'm not sure I'm the best person to ask, XM. I'll see what the people at work think, and let you know.

MrP

[MrPedantic]

Originally Posted by X Mode

I think it would be better to explain this in terms of writing as opposed to spoken language.

In writing, one could view it as redundant. In speaking, don't be preocuppied with such things, or you'll drive yourself crazy.

Of course, a formal speech which is prepared is not the same as "speaking English".

Well, we each stumble along as best we can.

I wish you a very good afternoon, my friend. I hope it's as sunny there as it's wet here.

MrP

[Steven D]

Originally Posted by MrPedantic

I'm talking about a tall, muscular student who obviously works out 20 hours a week. I know my limitations.


You're right. That'd be the way to conclude a discussion of grammar. I bet Chomsky does it all the time.


Shoot, missed that one...


Too late. I've cashed the cheque. Besides, we had some good times together. She'll forgive me.


Did I say 'wrong'? Hmm. I thought I said redundant, except in unusual situations.


Agreed x 6.


We make many strange little noises, we featherless bipeds. One more won't hurt.


I'm not sure I'm the best person to ask, XM. I'll see what the people at work think, and let you know.

MrP

You can't answer these questions. The pedant is stumped.

[MrPedantic]

Originally Posted by X Mode

You can't answer these questions. The pedant is stumped.

If you say so, XM, if you say so.

See you on another thread some day.

MrP

Originally Posted by MrPedantic

If you say so, XM, if you say so.

See you on another thread some day.

MrP

He does seem to have a point though;you do seem a bit stumped.