A case of Since

[shun]

Ex1: She has visited Ocean Park three times.

Ex2: She has visited Ocean Park three times since 1987.

Any difference between Ex1 and Ex2?



Your opinion is welcome.

[Tdol]

In the first, we only know that the visits took place in her life- they could have been earlier.

[shun]

Originally Posted by tdol

In the first, we only know that the visits took place in her life- they could have been earlier.

Are you implying the second one means the visits took place NOT in her life?

[shun]

I am talking about the same person.
Ex1: Mary has visited Ocean Park three times.
Ex2: Mary has visited Ocean Park three times since 1987.
Any difference between Ex1 and Ex2?

[Dany]

Originally Posted by shun

I am talking about the same person.
Ex1: Mary has visited Ocean Park three times.
Ex2: Mary has visited Ocean Park three times since 1987.
Any difference between Ex1 and Ex2?

Hello shun,

the only difference is, that you know in the second sentence, in which time (three times in 18 years) Mary has visited Ocean Park. You can suppose, that she visited the Ocean Park in 1987 the first time.

In the first sentence you don't know it. It could be, that she visited Ocean Park three times in one year (since 2004), or three times in twenty years (since 1985). You don't know it.

I hope this helps.

Kind regards,
Dany

Shouldn't it be "has been visiting" though?

[Dany]

Originally Posted by dodgerfan2002

Shouldn't it be "has been visiting" though?

Both are possible. I don't think, that "has visited" is wrong in this case.

Kind regards,
Dany

[shun]

Originally Posted by Dany

the only difference is, that you know in the second sentence, in which time (three times in 18 years) Mary has visited Ocean Park. You can suppose, that she visited the Ocean Park in 1987 the first time.

In the first sentence you don't know it. It could be, that she visited Ocean Park three times in one year (since 2004), or three times in twenty years (since 1985). You don't know it.

Dany,

Thank you so much.

I have specially noted that "I am talking about the same person", because I hope people will not give two different analyses to the same person.

Actually my problem is, if Ex1 denotes a finish, does Ex2 denote also a finish?
Ex1: Mary has visited Ocean Park three times.
Ex2: Mary has visited Ocean Park three times since 1987.

Grammars say that, with Since, an action continues up to now. But Ex2 seems not to be so. It seems to be a completion, same as Ex1. This puzzles me.

Shun

[Tdol]

The visits are complete, but there is the possibility with both to visit again, swhich is why we use the present perfect. If she couldn't or was going to visit again, we'd move to the past tense:

She visited the Soviet Union three times. (She can't go there again as it's ceased to exist)

[shun]

We understand that Since is used to modify the action. If Since means "(from a past time) up to the present", how can we suggest that, in Ex2, the visits are complete and not up to now? To suggest so will destroy our agreement in using Since, I am afraid.