[Grammar] Using of the word 'would' will make difference?

Status
Not open for further replies.

Heidi

Member
Joined
Apr 30, 2009
Member Type
Student or Learner
Native Language
Chinese
Home Country
Taiwan
Current Location
Taiwan
Dear friends,

The text below is what I read in a magazine. I was wondering why the author used 'later, Burton would land a job at Disney', why not simply say 'later, Burton landed a job at Disney'? And, what does 'creative diferences' mean? Thank you!

Burton's (director of the movie Alice in wonderland) career began in a somewhat peculiar manner. His artistic talent was discovered by a garbage company. The organization loved his anti-litter posters, so they asked to put them on the side of their garbage trucks. Later, Burton would land a job at Disney. Despite his talent, he had some creative differences with coworkers who felt he was a bit strange...
 

Pedroski

Senior Member
Joined
Apr 6, 2009
Member Type
Other
Native Language
British English
Home Country
UK
Current Location
China
Here 'would' is the past tense form of 'will'. Tense is a complicated subject, but we are talking here about his career, from a viewpoint in the past, where he has not yet got the job at Disney, so the writer used 'would'.
 

Heidi

Member
Joined
Apr 30, 2009
Member Type
Student or Learner
Native Language
Chinese
Home Country
Taiwan
Current Location
Taiwan
Here 'would' is the past tense form of 'will'. Tense is a complicated subject, but we are talking here about his career, from a viewpoint in the past, where he has not yet got the job at Disney, so the writer used 'would'.
Dear Pedroski,

Thanks for your reply.
In the same text, the author used 'creative differences'. Would you please tell me how 'differences' can be described as 'creative'? Thank you!
 

Pedroski

Senior Member
Joined
Apr 6, 2009
Member Type
Other
Native Language
British English
Home Country
UK
Current Location
China
'differences' in your text is a euphemism for 'arguments'. He presumably did not like the way the people at Disney worked, how they created their art. His co-workers there found him to be a bit strange. I presume they did not like the way he worked. So they had 'creative differences' = arguments about how to work, how to create their art.

明白?
 

TheParser

VIP Member
Joined
Dec 8, 2009
Member Type
Other
Native Language
English
Home Country
United States
Current Location
United States
Dear friends,

The text below is what I read in a magazine. I was wondering why the author used 'later, Burton would land a job at Disney', why not simply say 'later, Burton landed a job at Disney'? And, what does 'creative diferences' mean? Thank you!

Burton's (director of the movie Alice in wonderland) career began in a somewhat peculiar manner. His artistic talent was discovered by a garbage company. The organization loved his anti-litter posters, so they asked to put them on the side of their garbage trucks. Later, Burton would land a job at Disney. Despite his talent, he had some creative differences with coworkers who felt he was a bit strange...


********** NOT A TEACHER **********


Heidi,


I was fascinated by your question abour "would" because I think that

you have made a very insightful observation. I think that sometimes

writers use "would" when they should use the good old past tense.

I once read in the Times Literary Supplement (perhaps the world's

most scholarly book review) something to this effect:

It is wrong to write "This would not be the first/last time." This implies

that had [the writer] been there he could have predicted what was

in the future. Use the simple past: This was not the ... .

*****

I also read this in a biography:

"The old Emperor William would die at ninety-one in 1888."

I guess -- according to the adviser in the Times Literary Supplement --

the sentence should have simply said:

The old Emperor William died at ... .


********** NOT A TEACHER **********
 
Last edited:

Heidi

Member
Joined
Apr 30, 2009
Member Type
Student or Learner
Native Language
Chinese
Home Country
Taiwan
Current Location
Taiwan
'differences' in your text is a euphemism for 'arguments'. He presumably did not like the way the people at Disney worked, how they created their art. His co-workers there found him to be a bit strange. I presume they did not like the way he worked. So they had 'creative differences' = arguments about how to work, how to create their art.

明白?
Dear Pedroski,

I think I understand. Thank you!

順便想請教您, "我想我明白了" 說成 "I think I understand" 恰當嗎?:lol:
 

Heidi

Member
Joined
Apr 30, 2009
Member Type
Student or Learner
Native Language
Chinese
Home Country
Taiwan
Current Location
Taiwan
********** NOT A TEACHER **********


Heidi,


I was fascinated by your question abour "would" because I think that

you have made a very insightful observation. I think that sometimes

writers use "would" when they should use the good old past tense.

I once read in the Times Literary Supplement (perhaps the world's

most scholarly book review) something to this effect:

It is wrong to write "This would not be the first/last time." This implies

that had [the writer] been there he could have predicted what was

in the future. Use the simple past: This was not the ... .

*****

I also read this in a biography:

"The old Emperor William would die at ninety-one in 1888."

I guess -- according to the adviser in the Times Literary Supplement --

the sentence should have simply said:

The old Emperor William died at ... .


********** NOT A TEACHER **********
Dear TheParser,

I'm not quite sure If I'v got what you mean. (Is it strange to say '...if I've got what you mean'? If so, please correct me!)

Do you mean it's better (or more approprite) to have said "later, he landed a job at Disney"?

Because I think the author was introducing, or describing someone, he should have know something about the person. I feel a bit strange the author predicted what Burton (the movie director) would do.
 

TheParser

VIP Member
Joined
Dec 8, 2009
Member Type
Other
Native Language
English
Home Country
United States
Current Location
United States
Dear TheParser,

I'm not quite sure If I'v got what you mean. (Is it strange to say '...if I've got what you mean'? If so, please correct me!)

Do you mean it's better (or more approprite) to have said "later, he landed a job at Disney"?

Because I think the author was introducing, or describing someone, he should have know something about the person. I feel a bit strange the author predicted what Burton (the movie director) would do.

********** NOT A TEACHER **********


Heidi,


Thank you for your kind note.

I think that you are correct on both counts:

(1) If I've got what you mean is, I feel, perfectly good English.

(2) If I understand that source that I quoted in my first post, then

I agree with you that the writer should have said "landed."

After all, I noticed that in the next sentence he used the past

tense, not "would + bare infinitive."


********** NOT A TEACHER **********
 

5jj

Moderator
Staff member
Joined
Oct 14, 2010
Member Type
English Teacher
Native Language
British English
Home Country
Czech Republic
Current Location
Czech Republic
I always twitch when I read or hear 'should have said X' or 'X is better'.

When we are dealing with grammar as fact, (for example: the plural of child is children), then we can be authoritative - authoritarian even. However, when we are dealing with grammar as choice or style, then we can only give opinions.

The use of would may convey exactly the message the writer wishes to convey, and even the 'world's most scholarly book review' has no authority to rule on that.
 

Heidi

Member
Joined
Apr 30, 2009
Member Type
Student or Learner
Native Language
Chinese
Home Country
Taiwan
Current Location
Taiwan
I always twitch when I read or hear 'should have said X' or 'X is better'.

When we are dealing with grammar as fact, (for example: the plural of child is children), then we can be authoritative - authoritarian even. However, when we are dealing with grammar as choice or style, then we can only give opinions.

The use of would may convey exactly the message the writer wishes to convey, and even the 'world's most scholarly book review' has no authority to rule on that.
Dear fivejedjon,

I have doubted that the use of the word 'would' here might be not a matter of grammar, but kind of a matter of writing skill, writing art or writing style. I know that, for me, it may be not an easy job to appreciate what a author was trying to convey, I still have lots of things to learn, and I would like to hear more from you.
"Later, Burton would land a job at Disney"---Would you please tell me more about what the author possibly trying to convey and what the message behind was? Thank you!
For reference, I post the whole paragraph here:

Burton's (director of the movie Alice in wonderland) career began in a somewhat peculiar manner. His artistic talent was discovered by a garbage company. The organization loved his anti-litter posters, so they asked to put them on the side of their garbage trucks. Later, Burton would land a job at Disney. Despite his talent, he had some creative differences with coworkers who felt he was a bit strange. In 1989, Burton hit the big time when he was chosen to direct Batman. It became a box-office smash largely because it gave audiences a glimpse at the dark side of the caped crusader.
 
Last edited:

philo2009

Senior Member
Joined
Jan 16, 2009
Member Type
Academic
Native Language
British English
Home Country
UK
Current Location
Japan
I once read in the Times Literary Supplement (perhaps the world's

most scholarly book review) something to this effect:

It is wrong to write "This would not be the first/last time." This implies

that had [the writer] been there he could have predicted what was

in the future. Use the simple past: This was not the ... .


With all due respect to said publication, complete balderdash!

There is a significant difference between a simple statement about a past event made using the preterite and one about an event yet to occur from a given past perspective. You might as well try to ban 'Burton was later to get a job...' - an equally good way of expressing the same meaning.
 

Raymott

VIP Member
Joined
Jun 29, 2008
Member Type
Academic
Native Language
English
Home Country
Australia
Current Location
Australia
Yes, fivejedjon is right, and "would" in this context is not wrong at all.
It's used when you are narrating something in the past, and you want to make a temporary leap forward in your narrative; that is, while the event you want to narrate is now in the past, from the point of view of your story, it is in the future.

"In January, 2005, Barack Obama began his first term as a Senator in Illinois. This was a proud moment for him. He could not have imagined then that in 2008 he would be elected President. His first Senate reforms were ... "
So the narrative here begins when becomes a senator, looks forward to 2008, then goes back to his Senate years.

If this were narrated in the present tense (the historical present), you'd have:
"In January, 2005, Barack Obama begins his first term as a Senator in Illinois. This is a proud moment for him. He can't imagine that in 2008 he will be elected President. His first Senate reforms are ... "
(See this link for better examples of the historical present)
Historical present - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
http://grammar.about.com/od/fh/g/histpreterm.htm

So, since "will be" is used in the present tense narrative for a future time, "would be" is used in a past tense narrative for a future time.

Others might explain it a little differently. This isn't meant to be definitive.
 

5jj

Moderator
Staff member
Joined
Oct 14, 2010
Member Type
English Teacher
Native Language
British English
Home Country
Czech Republic
Current Location
Czech Republic
Dear fivejedjon,


"Later, Burton would land a job at Disney"---Would you please tell me more about what the author possibly trying to convey and what the message behind was?

Hi Heidi

I think Raymott has answered this question clearly now.

By the way, I am happy to receive PMs (private messages) through the link you can find clicking on my name, but it is better not to make private requests on a public thread - you might miss the chance for other people to answer your questions.:)
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top