Identifying the verb

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barryashton

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Consider the sentence:

The gate swung shut behind him.

Both 'swung' and 'shut' are capable of being verbs. In this case I take it that 'shut' is the main verb. What role does 'swung' play? As I understand the term 'swung shut' is not a phrasal verb, and 'swung' is not one of the common auxiliary verbs.

Many thanks

Barry
 

5jj

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The verb is 'swung', the past tense of 'swing'.
 

barryashton

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Thanks for the reply 5jj. Modifying my question. What role does 'shut' play?

Barry
 

5jj

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The gate swings until it ends up in the shut position.It's an adjective.
 

Frank Antonson

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Consider the sentence:

The gate swung shut behind him.

Both 'swung' and 'shut' are capable of being verbs. In this case I take it that 'shut' is the main verb. What role does 'swung' play? As I understand the term 'swung shut' is not a phrasal verb, and 'swung' is not one of the common auxiliary verbs.

Many thanks

Barry
I guess that I would call "shut" a past participle acting as a predicate adjective. For this to be the case, "swung" has to be considered a "linking verb". (These are American terms.) As in, "The gate became closed behind him."
 

barryashton

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Many thanks for your further help 5jj and Frank. I think what you, Frank, refer to as a linking verb I would call a copular verb. This now makes sense. As 'swung' is used as a copular verb it may be followed by, what I understand as, a (Subject) Complement Phrase. In this case the adjective 'shut'. This gives:

Subject phrase: The gate (the - determiner, gate - noun)
Verb phrase: swung (swung - copular verb)
Complement phrase: (shut - adjective)
Adverbial phrase: (behind - preposition, him - objective personal pronoun).

If anybody disagrees with this analysis I would be delighted to hear from them.

Barry
 

Frank Antonson

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OK

I don't understand the British terms very well.

But I hate to see "the verb in the sentence". Verbs and simple predicates are different things. A verb is a part of speech. A simple predicate is a part of a sentence. Simple predicates will always and only be verbs, but verbs can do other things in sentences beside being simple predicates.

Frank
 

Frank Antonson

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"Swung" and "shut" are both verbs. The first is the past tense of the verb "to swing". The second is the past participle of the verb "to shut". Only "swung", however, is the simple predicate in this sentence.
 

barryashton

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Hello Frank

I am at the beginning of a syntactic journey so I will undoubtedly make many mistakes. My apologies if I have misunderstood your arguments. In particular I am not sure what point you are making as nobody has used the term 'the verb in the sentence'. You say that both 'swung' and 'shut' are verbs. In my first post I said, I think more accurately, that both 'swung' and 'shut' are capable of being verbs. That is, capable of being verbs in the appropriate context.

In the present context 'swung' acts as the verb while 'shut' does not. I am not familiar with the term simple predicate but it appears to be what I would call a verb phrase, verb element, or where the verb phrase (element) consists of a single word, the verb.

Barry
 

Frank Antonson

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Hello Frank

I am at the beginning of a syntactic journey so I will undoubtedly make many mistakes. My apologies if I have misunderstood your arguments. In particular I am not sure what point you are making as nobody has used the term 'the verb in the sentence'. You say that both 'swung' and 'shut' are verbs. In my first post I said, I think more accurately, that both 'swung' and 'shut' are capable of being verbs. That is, capable of being verbs in the appropriate context.

In the present context 'swung' acts as the verb while 'shut' does not. I am not familiar with the term simple predicate but it appears to be what I would call a verb phrase, verb element, or where the verb phrase (element) consists of a single word, the verb.

Barry
Barry,
This is partly because of the confusion of British vs American terms and partly because of the morphology vs syntax division.
They are separate subjects.
I can only use the American system. And by that system, "swung" and "shut" are both verbs (in morphological terms). If you look them up in a dictionary, I think it will say that they are verbs, or derived from verbs.
When speak about how they act within the sentence, then you are in the realm of syntax. A dictionary cannot help you there because it would have to know the sentence.
Why I say that they are both verbs is because the pass the test of changing with time -- Today I swing (shut), yesterday I swung (shut), I have swung (shut). Now, in the case of "shut", the word does not change. It is, however, still a verb.
eg. "to shut", "shutting".
I am not sure if this helps, but what is CRITICAL is that you do not mix syntax with morphology.
Frank

PA And, no, verb phrase is not the same as a simple predicate. I really think that you are failing to realize that syntax and morphology are separate things.
 

Frank Antonson

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Sorry about those mistakes I made. e.g PS not PA.
etc.
 

5jj

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Why I say that they are both verbs is because the pass the test of changing with time -- Today I swing (shut), yesterday I swung (shut), I have swung (shut). Now, in the case of "shut", the word does not change. It is, however, still a verb.
eg. "to shut", "shutting".
'Swing' changes with tense and aspect - "I swing/swung, am/was swinging, have/had swung", etc, but 'shut' never changes.,

'Shut' can indeed function as a verb. However, in this particular sentence, does it not function as an adjective? If it is a verb, then one needs to explain its form, and also to explain the difference in functions between 'shut' and the underlined words in:

I swung the door open/to/ajar.
 

Frank Antonson

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"Shut" is in this case the past participle of the verb "to shut". Virtually all verbs as past participles can function as adjectives, i.e. modify.
Now, there are a few verbs which do not change from present, through past, to past participle.
"To run", for example, goes "Today I run, yesterday I ran, I have run".
The past participle is the same as the present.
At the moment, I can't think of any other than "to shut" that don't change at all.

If it helps any, think of the sentence as saying that the gate swung closed.

Frank
 

5jj

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"Shut" is in this case the past participle of the verb "to shut".
How do you know? 'to' and 'ajar' (see my last post) are clearly not verbs , and 'open', if it be a verb, is not a past participle
5
 

barryashton

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Hello again Frank

You say 'If you look them up in a dictionary, I think it will say that they are verbs, or derived from verbs.' I have looked 'shut' up in various dictionaries and they give examples of 'shut' acting as a verb and examples of 'shut' acting as an 'adjective' (and as a noun). Perhaps the best examples are given in the Merriam-Webster online (I tried to include the web address here but I have not made sufficient posts - sorry) which gives, amongst others, the following example of 'shut' acting as an adjective: The door slammed shut.

Barry
 

Frank Antonson

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Barry,

I agree that "shut" can be an adjective. I am just trying to say that is the the past participle of the verb "to shut". Past participles are used all of the time as adjectives.

I though of another example of a verbs whose "principle parts" remain unchanged. "To hit".
Today I hit, yesterday I hit, I have hit. So, in a sentence like "The hit ball flew over the fence". "Hit" is clearly modifying "ball".

What "shut" and "hit" clearly are NOT in these sentences is simple predicates. "Gate swung" and "ball flew" are the simple subject/simple predicate pairs in the sentences in question.

Now with a verb like "to drink" (Today I drink, yesterday I drank, I have drunk"), something else is going on with "the drunk man". "The drunk beer is now gone", would be like what I am trying to show.

Frank
 

Frank Antonson

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"To" and "ajar" are clearly not verbs. Today I to, yesterday I toed... no. Nor today I ajar...

Open can be a verb, but in your example it would not be. Now, if the word were "opened", then I would consider it so.
 

barryashton

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Frank

The point is not merely that 'shut' can be used as an adjective but rather that it actually is used as an adjective in my original sentence. It is simply confusing to refer to 'shut' as a past participle when it is not being used as a verb. Of course in a different example (but not the one we are discussing) 'shut' could well be used as a verb. In such a case it could well be helpful to refer to it as a past participle.

Your reference to the verb 'to hit' (I would say the verb 'hit') is also confusing. Your example 'The hit ball flew over the fence' is somewhat contrived. Once again 'hit' is not being used as a verb. The fact that 'hit' is capable of being used as a verb in a different context is of no relevance. You are actually using 'hit' as an adjective. Further to your previous advice to look up in in a dictionary I have checked the main dictionaries for the use of 'hit' in an adjectival way. I have been unable to find any such uses. Hence my view that your use of 'hit' is contrived.

Frank
 

5jj

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"To" and "ajar" are clearly not verbs. Today I to, yesterday I toed... no. Nor today I ajar...
But in the example I gave, what is the difference between 'shut' and 'to/ajar'?
 

Bimbi

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Check this link:

usingenglish.com/glossary/resultative-adjective.html
 
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