Question about English vowel diagram

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symaa

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I draw this diagram from a phonetic book/British pronuciation/

577080332.jpg



373078080.jpg
http://www14.0zz0.com/2011/05/11/11/373078080.jpg







But the symbols which were underlined by yellow color ,I do not think that they are phonetic symbols because we have only
/æ / as in cat
/ʌ / as in cut
/ɜ:/ as in turn

And we have not ɑ and ɜ
Also the/ ɜ/ / ɔ/ should be with colon
So I am very confused:-(
 
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symaa

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Do not you see the picture?
 

thatone

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/ɛ/ is the vowel of bed.
/ɑ/ is the first vowel of father.

The ː, that looks like a colon, means that the vowel is long. In British English there's usually /ɜː/ and /ɔː/, but it's not necessary to add ː because what matters is the vowel itself, since the length can vary by person.
 

BobK

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I draw this diagram from a phonetic book/British pronuciation/

577080332.jpg



373078080.jpg
http://www14.0zz0.com/2011/05/11/11/373078080.jpg







But the symbols which were underlined by yellow color ,I do not think that they are phonetic symbols because we have only
/æ / as in cat
/ʌ / as in cut
/ɜ:/ as in turn

And we have not ɑ and ɜ
Also the/ ɜ/ / ɔ/ should be with colon
So I am very confused:-(

/ɛ/ is the vowel of bed.
/ɑ/ is the first vowel of father.

The ː, that looks like a colon, means that the vowel is long. In British English there's usually /ɜː/ and /ɔː/, but it's not necessary to add ː because what matters is the vowel itself, since the length can vary by person.

:up: ;-) Don't be worried by this, symaa. The IPA system specifies and represents many more sounds than are needed for a language student's needs. There is a convention by which - for ease of typing, the symbol [ɛ] is represented by /e/, because English has no [e] vs [ɛ] distinction, so for phonemic transcription the more familiar symbol is often used; the same goes for [ɑ] vs [a].

b
 

symaa

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/ɛ/ is the vowel of bed.
/ɑ/ is the first vowel of father.

The ː, that looks like a colon, means that the vowel is long. In British English there's usually /ɜː/ and /ɔː/, but it's not necessary to add ː because what matters is the vowel itself, since the length can vary by person.

thank you for your explanation
But the transcribtion of bed is /bed/
and father /fɑːðə/
Regards
 

symaa

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:up: ;-) Don't be worried by this, symaa. The IPA system specifies and represents many more sounds than are needed for a language student's needs. There is a convention by which - for ease of typing, the symbol [ɛ] is represented by /e/, because English has no [e] vs [ɛ] distinction, so for phonemic transcription the more familiar symbol is often used; the same goes for [ɑ] vs [a].

b

Thank you teacher,
My teacher said the sound ɑ like bat, but the transcription of bat is /bæt/.Really this diagram disturb me.
By the way I like British accent,it is very pretty.
All the best
 

thatone

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In IPA, the correct vowel of bed is /ɛ/. Your book might use /e/ to make things easier.

/ɑ/ and /ɑː/ are the same vowel. The ː just means that the vowel is longer. Such a symbol is omitted in IPA charts.
 

symaa

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In IPA, the correct vowel of bed is /ɛ/. Your book might use /e/ to make things easier.

/ɑ/ and /ɑː/ are the same vowel. The ː just means that the vowel is longer. Such a symbol is omitted in IPA charts.

The transcription is from oxfordadvancedlearnersdictionary.com
Thank you very much for your help
Best wishes
 

Raymott

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Thank you teacher,
My teacher said the sound ɑ like bat, but the transcription of bat is /bæt/.Really this diagram disturb me.
By the way I like British accent,it is very pretty.
All the best
If you teacher "said the sound ɑ like bat, but the transcription of bat", then it is your teacher who should be disturbing you, not the diagram.
Do you have any other troubles with it?
 

symaa

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If you teacher "said the sound like bat, but the transcription of bat", then it is your teacher who should be disturbing you, not the diagram.
Do you have any other troubles with it?
Thank you, but to be honest I am very confused if

To be perfectly honest my teacher said that ɑ as in bat ,but when I looked for the transcription of the word I found that the transcription of bat is /bæt/
So, I cannot distinguish between the two vowels:-(, so how can they have the same pronunciation ,because æ is font vowel and in the other side ɑ is a back vowel,moreover I never find a word transcribed with ɑ

All the best
Thank you again my teacher
 

konungursvia

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Thank you teacher,
My teacher said the sound ɑ like bat, but the transcription of bat is /bæt/.Really this diagram disturb me.
By the way I like British accent,it is very pretty.
All the best

Your teacher is in error, if he really said that.
 

symaa

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Your teacher is in error, if he really said that.
Thank you teacher for your interest

He just pronounce the word and I think there is in English only bat and but.

So could you please explain me the difference between
æ and ɑ
if there are some examples which could simplify to me this diagram:-( I would be very happy
I am extremly disturbed with this vowel diagram:cry:



NB: we study British pronunciation
 

Raymott

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Thank you teacher for your interest

He just pronounce the word and I think there is in English only bat and but.

So could you please explain me the difference between
æ and ɑ
if there are some examples which could simplify to me this diagram:-( I would be very happy
I am extremly disturbed with this vowel diagram:cry:



NB: we study British pronunciation
My opinion is that you don't need ɑ for transcribing general British English. He's either saying 'bat' /bæt/ or 'but' /bʌt/.
ɑ is on the other side of ʌ from æ.
Since ɑ isn't necessary (it's not even in the Australian Macquarie Dictionary IPA pronunication guide - we use ʌ ), it's difficult to give examples with ɑ.
You can use it for Italian 'pasta' /pɑstɑ/
I've never used it to transcribe English.
 

symaa

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My opinion is that you don't need ɑ for transcribing general British English. He's either saying 'bat' /bæt/ or 'but' /bʌt/.
ɑ is on the other side of ʌ from æ.
Since ɑ isn't necessary (it's not even in the Australian Macquarie Dictionary IPA pronunication guide - we use ʌ ), it's difficult to give examples with ɑ.
You can use it for Italian 'pasta' /pɑstɑ/
I've never used it to transcribe English.
Thank you very much for your reply
So if it is not necesssary why they include it in the english vowel diagram, perhaps it means ɑ: as in arm, anyway thank you for your help teacher,and excuse me if I bother you.
Regards
 

BobK

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Perhaps the teacher was talking about Thai currency - or Homer's son. Doh;-)

b
 

symaa

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Perhaps the teacher was talking about Thai currency - or Homer's son. Doh;-)

b
what's?:)
Linguistic is very complicated:-(
All the best my teacher
 

symaa

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Raymott

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:-D Before I posted I have looked for the meaning in the internet, but I do not understand, you seems that you have a merry personality.
I am a clever student hahaa:cool:
Best wishes

In any case, that would be /ba:t/ or /bart/ if you're rhotic (for the second), not /bɑ:t/ or /bɑrt/.

You'll also note that the official IPA vowel chart places ɑ and ʌ in difference places. And your teachers chart seems to be missing the /a/, which is traditional below the æ. He's apparently using /ɑ/ for /a/, which is fine as long as everyone knows what's going on (and realises that it's not traditional IPA). He still can't transcibe 'cat' as /kɑt/ though, if that's the case.

Here's a proper IPA chart:
http://www.google.com.au/imgres?imgurl=http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/archive/5/5a/20060825195333!IPA_vowel_chart_2005.png&imgrefurl=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:IPA_vowel_chart_2005.png&h=641&w=797&sz=32&tbnid=6XljW6PUjVOlpM:&tbnh=115&tbnw=143&prev=/search%3Fq%3DIPA%2Bvowel%2Bchart%26tbm%3Disch%26tbo%3Du&zoom=1&q=IPA+vowel+chart&hl=en&usg=___Q6RifamIMV7pS7nb-HocbqQDjo=&sa=X&ei=FOTSTa_PDYPOrQeTzKWrCQ&sqi=2&ved=0CD4Q9QEwBg
 
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birdeen's call

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My opinion is that you don't need ɑ for transcribing general British English.
I don't think this is right. [ɑ:] is present in RP in words like "father", "far", "path", "laugh". The sound is apparently not present in AusE, this chart says.
 
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