The coldest start to (a) June on record

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nyota

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From http://www.adelaidenow.com.au:
Anyone shivering in Adelaide this morning had good reason to do so - it was the coldest start to June on record.
[...] "I think it's the coldest start to a June that we've ever had at Kent Town," Mr Rowlands said.

What is the difference in meaning?
 

5jj

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I see no difference.
 

5jj

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But then you don't normally use 'a' with months?
Not normally, but we can, sometimes:

We had a very disappointing May last year.
 

nyota

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Not normally, but we can, sometimes:

We had a very disappointing May last year.

Here, however, the type of May is specified - it's 'very disappointing', hence 'a'. I feel the weather example is not quite the same. :-?
 
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5jj

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How abou these, from The Corpus of Contemporary American English:


The blizzard rare for a December in New York complicates the trips of Christmas travellers...

But a tall, dark police officer is about to give her a December to remember...


?
 

nyota

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How abou these, from The Corpus of Contemporary American English:

(1) The blizzard rare for a December in New York complicates the trips of Christmas travellers...

(2) But a tall, dark police officer is about to give her a December to remember...


?

That's more like it! So from these contexts I gather, 'a' emphasises the 'kind', too, even without an additional phrase.

Could I get rid of 'a' in your examples? Skipping it in (2) doesn't seem like an option to me?
 
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5jj

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That's more like it! So from these contexts I gather, 'a' emphasises the 'kind', too, even without an additional phrase.

Could I get rid of 'a' in your examples? Skipping it in (2) doesn't seem like an option to me?
You are right. It's not essential in the first, but it appears to be in the second.
 

TheParser

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From http://www.adelaidenow.com.au:


What is the difference in meaning?


NOT A TEACHER


(1) What a fascinating question. I had never thought about the matter

before.

(2) Is it just a coincidence that the headline does NOT use "a," but

in the article a gentleman is quoted as using "a"?

(3) I found a similar situation while googling. An Irish newspaper

had this headline:

WE'VE ENDURED COLDEST START TO WINTER SINCE RECORDS BEGAN

Then the story began: It has been the coldest start to a winter since
records began more than 130 years ago.

A coincidence? I think not.

(4) Before we continue, it might be helpful to remember that the

word "a" = "one."

(5) So maybe (maybe!!!) we can say that your sentence with "a" =

The coldest start to one particular June on record.

(6) What I am trying to say in my awkward manner is this:

Quite possibly the "correct" English is the use of the indefinite

article, but over the years speakers (and writers) have just dropped the

article in order to speak faster (save space in writing). So today our

ears think that "coldest start to June" is correct even though the

"correct" way should be "coldest start to a June."

(7) Take the excellent examples from Teacher Fivejedjon:

blizzzard rare for a December. (Yes, no problem if you omit "December,"
but quite possibly the "correct" sentence demands that "a.")

to give her a December to remember. (Yes, that "a" cannot be omitted, because he is giving her something specific: a December to remember, a gift of a lifetime, a kiss to end all kisses, etc.)

(8) The bottom line: When one thinks about it, it appears that

"good" grammar requires the indefinite article. But in the real world,

native speakers and space-conscious journalists have simply decided

to drop little "unimportant" words. As for me, if I ever have occasion to

write such a sentence (which I won't), I shall use "a" -- thanks to what

I learned from your thread.

P.S. Where I live, it seems that this may be the coldest start

to a spring on record.


Respectfully yours,


James
 

nyota

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[...]

(2) Is it just a coincidence that the headline does NOT use "a," but

in the article a gentleman is quoted as using "a"?

(3) I found a similar situation while googling. An Irish newspaper

had this headline:

WE'VE ENDURED COLDEST START TO WINTER SINCE RECORDS BEGAN

Then the story began: It has been the coldest start to a winter since
records began more than 130 years ago.

A coincidence? I think not. Yes, it seems articles are often omitted in headlines. However, the example I quoted wasn't a headline. What's more, the sentences are almost the same and yet the usage of 'a' differs. It's as if within a couple of lines, June was treated more generally and then as one particular kind

(4) Before we continue, it might be helpful to remember that the

word "a" = "one."

(5) So maybe (maybe!!!) we can say that your sentence with "a" =

The coldest start to one particular June on record. I guess that's what it comes down to, one/a type of June, one particular June.

[...]

(8) The bottom line: When one thinks about it, it appears that

"good" grammar requires the indefinite article. But in the real world,

native speakers and space-conscious journalists have simply decided

to drop little "unimportant" words. But surely you wouldn't want to use 'a' in sentences like: The theatre opened in May or We got married in December? As for me, if I ever have occasion to

write such a sentence (which I won't), I shall use "a" -- thanks to what

I learned from your thread.

P.S. Where I live, it seems that this may be the coldest start

to a spring on record. Where's that global warming? ;)

Regardless of what was correct in the past, clearly, these days there are some unwritten (?) rules as to where you can insert an indefinite article with 'months' and where it doesn't really sound right, or perhaps where it doesn't sound quite right NOT to have an article (as in 5jj's example (2) in post #6).

It reminds me of the use of an indefinite article before a surname (where 'normally' you wouldn't have it), of course with a change of meaning e.g. - A Mr. Smith - would be a man called Smith, who is a stranger to the speaker, or -He was an Einstein of his time - which tells us the person in question had Einstein's characteristics.
 

TheParser

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(1) Thank you for your kind note.

(2) Usingenglish.com [when I first joined this website, a veteran member, one of their top teachers, admonished me for putting a period after com]
is great because I get to meet people who are eager to discuss grammar.
(Most Americans run from grammar. Many high schools no longer teach it, for the students say it is "boring." A few years ago, a young lady actually stopped me on the sidewalk to ask me how "succeed" is spelled!!!)

(3) I actually read your note at 7 a.m. and then I had to leave for
a medical appointment. It is now 1:30 p.m., and I had hoped that a teacher would have answered you by now. Then I, too, would know the answers. Alas! No one has (as I type these words), so let me comment
on two of your points:

(a) I do believe that in your link (an Australian newspaper) the headline lacks the "a," and a gentleman is quoted in the article using an "a." After I post this, I will check again. If I am mistaken, then I'll edit this post.

(b) Regarding "The theater [Americans only spell it as "theatre" when they
want to be very fancy or elegant!!!] opened in May," and "We got married in December," why, yes, I do believe there are cases where [when?] an
"a" is possible:

Tony: Are you married?

Joe: Not anymore.

Tony: Oh, I'm sorry.

Joe: Yeah, it was one of those cases. We got married in a December

and divorced in the following January.



Respectfully yours,


James
 

nyota

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(a) I do believe that in your link (an Australian newspaper) the headline lacks the "a," and a gentleman is quoted in the article using an "a." After I post this, I will check again. If I am mistaken, then I'll edit this post.

Actually it's used three times, (1) in the headline, (2) at the beginning of the article, and (3) in a quote.
1) Coldest start to winter on record in Adelaide
2) ANYONE shivering in Adelaide this morning had good reason to do so - it was the coldest start to June on record.
3) "I think it's the coldest start to a June that we've ever had at Kent Town," Mr Rowlands said.

So, not only is the indefinite article omitted in the heading, but also in the text.


(b) Regarding "The theater [Americans only spell it as "theatre" when they
want to be very fancy or elegant!!!] opened in May," and "We got married in December," why, yes, I do believe there are cases where [when?] It's funny that you should mention that. I was wondering about the same thing myself. an
"a" is possible:

Tony: Are you married?

Joe: Not anymore.

Tony: Oh, I'm sorry.

Joe: Yeah, it was one of those cases. We got married in a December

and divorced in the following January.

So, is the December in your example different from the previous one because you added the 'January' follow-up?

nyota
 

TheParser

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NOT A TEACHER


(1) Yes, you are 100% correct: three times. Once, by the headline

writer; once by the writer who wrote the first paragraph; once

(with the "correct" use) by a gentleman who is quoted.

(2) By the way, I thought of your post this very morning when I read

this sentence written by a British gentleman in the 1920's:

"The [name of a British newspaper] has been running a great

agricultural stunt all the summer." I suppose that "the" is technically

correct, but I do not think most people would write like that today.

[Or "to-day," as they used to spell it!!!] [I did not name the newspaper,

for it had and still has a rather controversial reputation; I do not

understand what it means by "stunt."]

(3) No, I do not believe "a December" necessarily depends on a following

reference to January. I'm thinking of something like:

It happened in a December that I want to forget about./ It happened in

one December that I want to forget about.


Sincerely,



James
 
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