"job experience"

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sato

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Teaching an ESL class earlier this week, The expression "job experience" came up in the textbook, and my immediate reaction was that it was not correct, although there is no doubt as to the meaning of the expression.
I have a co-teacher who objects strongly to any disagreement with the textbook, and so I looked up as much as I could online. A quick Google search gave me approximate values as to common usage - "work experience" returned around 15 million hits, whereas "job experience" returned a few less than 1 million. Searching the online dictionary on the Oxford website turned up no results for "job experience", neither did a consultation with the biggest English-Japanese dictionary in our library.
All this led me to conclude that "job experience" is a term in current use but not strictly correct English, perhaps analogous to (but certainly not on par with!) "should of", or any other recent expression used in absence of knowledge of the proper term.
Also whereas "work experience" can be expressed as "I experienced work" or "My work experience", the same cannot be said of "job experience", although "on-the-job experience" is a valid usage.
I'd be interested to know what anyone else has to say, specifically regarding the 'technically accurate' side of things rather than common usage, since my students are studying for university entrance exams.
 

lauralie2

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Teaching an ESL class earlier this week, The expression "job experience" came up in the textbook, and my immediate reaction was that it was not correct, although there is no doubt as to the meaning of the expression.
It's perfectly good English to me, but I am from North America, not Australia.

Searching the online dictionary on the Oxford website turned up no results for "job experience"
Try definition of Youth Training Scheme from Oxford Dictionaries Online.
 

Tdol

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To me, job experience sounds strange, but I am from the UK, not North America or Australia.

I'd use professional experience for the jobs someone has done and work experience for short-term, often unpaid, tasters in the workplace for students, etc, to help them decide on their careers.
 

sato

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Thank you for the replies lauralie and Tdol.
The quote from Oxford seems to be a governmental description of a particular program rather than an Oxford professor's own words, and my co-teacher with whom I am having the argument also produced numerous examples but only from newspapers since he could find no literary ones.
This would seem to confirm my suspicion that while the expression 'job experience' is used, it is not strictly correct English and shouldn't be in a textbook.
Does that sound like a fair assessment?
 

susiedqq

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Job Experience would be seen as a heading in a resume

or

one gets on-the-job experience, where one is trained at the actual job site.
 

sato

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Job Experience would be seen as a heading in a resume

or

one gets on-the-job experience, where one is trained at the actual job site.


Are you sure this is correct? I've been advised that 'professional experience' is the appropriate resume heading. A Google search seems to confirm this, 16 million hits for 'professional experience' and less than 1 million for 'job experience'.
People sometimes make mistakes such as this, usually when the correct expression is unknown. Another example is 'addicting games', in common usage by anyone who doesn't know that the adjective is 'addictive'.

Also you seem to be confusing 'training' and 'experience'. 'On-the-job training' is where one is trained at the actual job site.
 

Tdol

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I'd use professional experience (British English speaker)
 

somera

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'Work experience' seems more natural to me.
 

Johnson_F

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You seem to be wanting someone to come up with an authority to say that 'job experience' is incorrect English. They won't, because it isn't. Most of us may use other terms; you may not like this one; but it's around, and, that being so, it has every right to appear in a textbook.
 

sato

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Quite right, or an authority that confirms that it is in fact correct English. As I've said in previous posts and what should be clear to anybody, an expression being 'around' doesn't make it correct, see examples given above.
 

Raymott

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Quite right, or an authority that confirms that it is in fact correct English. As I've said in previous posts and what should be clear to anybody, an expression being 'around' doesn't make it correct, see examples given above.
"Job experience" sounds like correct English to me. Instead of looking for evidence of its correctness, why not say why you think it's wrong?
You're not arguing on the basis of usage, and semantically it's quite clear, so there must be something syntactic that you're not sure of. If "work experience" or any of those other terms above are correct, why not this one? It uses two nouns, with the first being used as an adjective.

You can't compare to this "would of" because "would of" is demonstrably wrong in grammar, whereas "job experience" isn't.

PS; I note that you've given one argument: "Also whereas "work experience" can be expressed as "I experienced work" or "My work experience", the same cannot be said of "job experience" ..." Are you claiming that a noun can only be used as an adjective if the qualified noun can be used as a verb??
 
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Raymott

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PPS: I think I might know why you don't like it.
"Work" can be a non-count noun. "What's your work experience?" means "What's your experience of work?"
And we don't say, "What's your experience of job?"

Also, there are many such phrases that use non-count nouns:
What's your television/reading/space... experience?" -> What's your experience of television/reading/space ...?"

But there are also many phrases that use countable nouns where the above doesn't happen:
"What's your movie/piano/motorbike experience?" These doesn't convert to, "What's your experience of (or with) movie/piano/motorbike?"
Would you claim that all these latter phrases are not proper English?
 

Johnson_F

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Quite right, or an authority that confirms that it is in fact correct English. As I've said in previous posts and what should be clear to anybody, an expression being 'around' doesn't make it correct, see examples given above.
What sort of 'authority' are you looking for? We have no authority in the way that the French-speaking world has its Academy.

In mainstream linguistics most writers prefer 'acceptable' to 'correct'. By 'acceptable' they mean something along the lines of 'X has been recorded in the speech and/or writing of a number of people. It appears to be accepted by most people as normal usage.' The 'acceptable/unacceptable' description is sometimes qualified by a suggestion that X may not be acceptable in formal writing, or that it is considered 'incorrect' by some people.

As Raymott pointed out, "You can't compare to this "would of" because "would of" is demonstrably wrong in grammar, whereas "job experience" isn't".
If ever 'should of' etc, becomes acceptable to a sufficient number of users of English, then the words 'demonstrably wrong' will have become outdated. 'If Henry was here here now' is demonstrably wrong in grammar, but enough people say it for it to have become unremarkable in BrE speech. It is probably true to say that that particular solecism is now acceptable.

Whichever way you look at it, 'job experience' is not 'incorrect'.



 

sato

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Thanks Raymott I appreciate your input. I agree that many non-countable nouns can be used as adjectives, your examples of 'television' etc are good.

I guess we could learn something by considering if 'job' can be used in the same way - is it completely interchangeable with the word 'work' or not? 'Job satisfaction' is an acceptable use of 'job' as an adjective in literary use (note to other commenters, I'm still talking about literary usage of English, not common speech), but to my mind there are still important differences between the words 'job' and 'work'. 'Job' has no opposite, 'work satisfaction' makes no sense (or does it?), and 'job' is neither a place nor an action as 'work' is.

Furthermore I still can't find any literary examples of 'job experience'. I've found some uses in recent newspapers, but since proofreaders are no longer employed they cannot be considered as literary sources.

It's not a question of my liking the expression or not. I don't use it myself but my question arises from the need to give proper advice to my students who will lose marks if they use an 'incorrect' (even if it is used by some people) expression in their university entrance exams.
 

sato

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Johnson thanks for your input. A dictionary or literary publication would make an appropriate authority for me. Not so much in themselves, but in what they represent - a large number of experts coming together and making the call.

I see what you're saying about the way in which common usage becomes the standard, and I agree, but there is an important distinction to make. Common usage can arise from one of two ways, from a new word or new use or expansion of meaning of a current word, or from an erroneous usage. For example, no matter how many people incorrectly use the word 'effect' when they mean 'affect', that will never become part of accepted English no matter how common the usage becomes. Similarly, if 'should of' were to be used in a meaningful sense, rather than just an erroneous 'should've' it could pass into accepted English.

I'm very interested to hear your arguements as to how 'job experience' is an expression in itself and rather than just used erroneously in place of 'work experience' or 'professional experience'?
 

Raymott

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Furthermore I still can't find any literary examples of 'job experience'. I've found some uses in recent newspapers, but since proofreaders are no longer employed they cannot be considered as literary sources.
The arbiter of whether "job experience" is acceptable on a CV. is not a linguistics professional, but a Human Relations Manager, or the hiring officer of companies. Perhaps you could get opinions from a job-search forum in which employers advise potential employees.
Even if, by some strange quirk of linguists, someone decided that "job experience" was not correct English, I would still teach it to students if that's what hirers wanted.
 
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