what is the truth/what the truth is

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GUEST2008

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Hi

I admit that I don't know what is the truth about it.

I admit that I don't know what the truth about it is.

---Which one is correct?
 

probus

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"I admit that I don't know what the truth about it is" is the idiomatic expression. The other is awkward.
 

GUEST2008

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Thanks for the answer. I always have problems with it, because as far as I know "is" is not always placed at the end of a sentence even when it's an affirmative sentence.
I can't think of any examples now, but I'm sure there are such cases.
 

engee30

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Thanks for the answer. I always have problems with it, because as far as I know "is" is not always placed at the end of a sentence even when it's an affirmative sentence.
I can't think of any examples now, but I'm sure there are such cases.

Here's an example for you, GUEST2008:
I admit that I don't know what is wrong with the sentence.
 

GUEST2008

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Hi

Good example.

So why not: ...what wrong with this sentence is.
 

engee30

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Hi

Good example.

So why not: ...what wrong with this sentence is.

In my example, what functions as subject to the verb is; in yours - as object.
:)
 

Bamako3

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what functions ... in yours - as object.
:)

No.

I admit that I don't know [what the truth about it is].

The bracketed nominal relative clause is the object of "know". "what" functions as the predicate nominative in the sub-clause. :up:
 

engee30

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No.

I admit that I don't know [what the truth about it is].

The bracketed nominal relative clause is the object of "know". "what" functions as the predicate nominative in the sub-clause. :up:

:up: Still, it's the object, no matter what you call it. I merely wanted the asker to see the difference between the two sentences, explaining the issue to him in simple terms.
 

Bamako3

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:up: Still, it's the object

Again, no.

I do not know something.
I do not know what the truth is.

If "what" is indeed the object, then what is "the truth is"?
 

engee30

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Again, no.

I do not know something.
I do not know what the truth is.

If "what" is indeed the object, then what is "the truth is"?

The truth in that clause is the subject:
I do not know this - this stands for the object of know
this = what the truth is - the object

What is the truth? - what is the object
The truth is what? - the truth is the subject, what is the object
The truth is this. - the truth is the subject, this is the object
 

Bamako3

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In copulative constructions (SVC), C is the subject complement, which is either adjectival, nominal, or adverbial. There is no object there.
 

engee30

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In copulative constructions (SVC), C is the subject complement, which is either adjectival, nominal, or adverbial. There is no object there.

:up:
That's what I already know, Bamako3. For the sake of simplicity, I used the term object instead of complement, so that the asker would easily get the idea of the difference between the subject and the complement (object) in the sentences in question.
 

Bamako3

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For the sake of simplicity, I used the term object instead of complement

They are chalk and cheese, eng. Crack a decent book on syntax and you will see.
 

engee30

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They are chalk and cheese, eng. Crack a decent book on syntax and you will see.

I've got a few of such already. I know that complement is the right term in this case, but isn't the complement the object to the verb?
 

Bamako3

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but isn't the complement the object to the verb?

Nein. An object to the verb is sometimes referred to as a complement (as it adds to the completion of the verb's meaning), but never the reverse.
 

engee30

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Nein. An object to the verb is sometimes referred to as a complement (as it adds to the completion of the verb's meaning), but never the reverse.

:up: You're absolutely right about that. Just have a look at the following, a simple definition of the term object taken from Collins:

object

4. In grammar, the object of a verb or a preposition is the word or phrase which completes the structure begun by the verb or preposition.

(c) HarperCollins Publishers.

That's exactly what I meant by simplicity, Bamako3.
 

Bamako3

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In grammar, the object of a verb or a preposition is the word or phrase which completes the structure begun by the verb or preposition.

You're absolutely right about that.

Am I right? How is that? The quoted parts above do not tally. :)


Just have a look at the following, a simple definition of the term object taken from Collins:
object

4. In grammar, the object of a verb or a preposition is the word or phrase which completes the structure begun by the verb or preposition.

That Collins must be a bit of a square peg in a round hole. More than 99% of English grammars would label "what" in "What is it?" as a subject complement, rather than as an object. That less than 1% are you and your Collins.

This is what another Collins says:

a noun, pronoun, or noun phrase that receives the action of a verb or is governed by a preposition,

Collins: The Dictionary Meaning of object

How inconsistent those Collins' are! :)



That's exactly what I meant by simplicity, Bamako3.

Thank you, engee, but I would rather stick to my guns. :up:

I rest my case. Thanks for the conversation.
 

engee30

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Thank you, engee, but I would rather stick to my guns. :up:

So be it, Bamako3. Surprisingly, I am in possession of your other Collins source as well. :)

To make things worse - here's another bit concerning the matter by Collins:

complement

5. In grammar, the complement of a link verb is an adjective group or noun group which comes after the verb and describes or identifies the subject. For example, in the sentence `They felt very tired', `very tired' is the complement. In `They were students', `students' is the complement.

(c) HarperCollins Publishers.
 
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