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Thread: got & received

  1. #1
    fire fly is offline Junior Member
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    Thumbs down got & received

    1.When I ______home I ______ a phone call.
    A. get / received B. was getting/received C. got/had received D. had got/received

    I think both “B. was getting / received” with the meaning “when = while” and “D. had got / received” with the meaning “ when = after” are correct. Am I right? Many thanks.

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    Re: got & received

    Quote Originally Posted by fire fly View Post
    1.When I ______home I ______ a phone call.
    A. get / received B. was getting/received C. got/had received D. had got/received

    I think both “B. was getting / received” with the meaning “when = while” and “D. had got / received” with the meaning “ when = after” are correct. Am I right? Many thanks.
    D. I don't like the sentence much, but the rest are impossible.
    "When/while I was getting home ..." is not normal.

  3. #3
    Searching for language is offline Senior Member
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    Re: got & received

    Quote Originally Posted by fire fly View Post
    1.When I ______home I ______ a phone call.
    A. get / received B. was getting/received C. got/had received D. had got/received

    I think both “B. was getting / received” with the meaning “when = while” and “D. had got / received” with the meaning “ when = after” are correct. Am I right? Many thanks.

    C- When the person came home, he/she checked the answering machine, and realized that there had been a call.

    I am not a teacher.

  4. #4
    albeit is offline Banned
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    Re: got & received

    Quote Originally Posted by fire fly View Post
    1.When I ______home I ______ a phone call.
    A. get / received B. was getting/received C. got/had received D. had got/received

    I think both “B. was getting / received” with the meaning “when = while” and “D. had got / received” with the meaning “ when = after” are correct. Am I right? Many thanks.
    For B to work, and it'd be a collocation for speech, we'd need to add a 'just',

    Just when I was getting home, I received/got a phone call.

    C sounds alright, in the right context. Using 'had received' seems too much without there being more to it. D also seems to need more context.

    What's the supposed correct answer, Firefly.

  5. #5
    Raymott's Avatar
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    Re: got & received

    Quote Originally Posted by Searching for language View Post
    C- When the person came home, he/she checked the answering machine, and realized that there had been a call.

    I am not a teacher.
    No, this is not good English at all.
    When I got home, I discovered that I had received a phone call. - OK.
    I noticed, I found ...
    In this case, you (had) received the phone call before you got home, not when you got home.
    We don't say:
    *When I got home, I had been robbed.
    *When I got home, I had left my house key at work.

  6. #6
    albeit is offline Banned
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    Re: got & received

    Quote Originally Posted by Raymott View Post
    No, this is not good English at all.
    When I got home, I discovered that I had received a phone call. - OK.
    I noticed, I found ...
    In this case, you (had) received the phone call before you got home, not when you got home.
    We don't say:
    *When I got home, I had been robbed.
    *When I got home, I had left my house key at work.
    When I got home, I had received a phone call.

    I beg to differ, Raymott. By using an asterisk[*], are you saying that they are ungrammatical?

    Certainly, these [in red] can collocate. They just need some context. This thread points up the difficulties in making good multiple choice questions. What the tester envisions is not what everyone envisions.

    There's not much that can be done, short of making three examples ungrammatical.

    =============

    Jill and Jane had been talking about Jill's tax problem. Jill mentions that she has been putting things off, not responding to tax office letters and that she feels that one day soon she just might get a phone call from them.

    Well, next day, Jill walks into the office, up to Jane's desk and says,

    Jill: When I got home, I had received a phone call.

    ==================

    There are three things that are necessary to make sense of a sentence: context, context and context.

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    Quincytree is offline Newbie
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    Re: got & received

    Typical dim-witted formulation for foreign students of English . If teachers would write a sentence that gives more information to base an answer on or that students could relate to it would facilitate the learning process.


    The answer the teacher is looking for is obviously C. A normal speaker would have said: When I got home I found / discovered / saw (that) I had received a phone call.

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    Raymott's Avatar
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    Re: got & received

    Quote Originally Posted by albeit View Post
    When I got home, I had received a phone call.

    I beg to differ, Raymott. By using an asterisk[*], are you saying that they are ungrammatical?

    I'm saying they're wrong, for the reasons I've given.
    Perhaps in Canadian, they are acceptable.
    =============

    Jill and Jane had been talking about Jill's tax problem. Jill mentions that she has been putting things off, not responding to tax office letters and that she feels that one day soon she just might get a phone call from them.

    Well, next day, Jill walks into the office, up to Jane's desk and says,

    Jill: When I got home, I had received a phone call.

    Yes, there are a lot of bizarre sentences that can be justified by contriving such situations. But in the test, this sentence is given without context, and the learner has to choose which sounds the best, the most correct.
    Jill chooses to express this situation in an unusual way, because it's an unusual contrived context.

    ==================

    There are three things that are necessary to make sense of a sentence: context, context and context.
    But don't you know that context is never given in these sorts of tests.
    Have you lost track of the context of the OP? It's a multiple choice non-contextualised sentence from which the best answer has to be chosen.
    So are you claiming that all such tests are invalid?

  9. #9
    albeit is offline Banned
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    Re: got & received

    Originally Posted by albeit
    When I got home, I had received a phone call.

    Albeit wrote: I beg to differ, Raymott. By using an asterisk[*], are you saying that they are ungrammatical?

    Raymott replied: I'm saying they're wrong, for the reasons I've given.
    Perhaps in Canadian, they are acceptable.

    It has nothing to do with Canadian versus any other dialect of English, Raymott. Those examples are grammatical in every dialect of English, are they not?

    =============

    Jill and Jane had been talking about Jill's tax problem. Jill mentions that she has been putting things off, not responding to tax office letters and that she feels that one day soon she just might get a phone call from them.

    Well, next day, Jill walks into the office, up to Jane's desk and says,

    Jill: When I got home, I had received a phone call.


    ======================


    Raymott replied: Yes, there are a lot of bizarre sentences that can be justified by contriving such situations. But in the test, this sentence is given without context, and the learner has to choose which sounds the best, the most correct.

    Jill chooses to express this situation in an unusual way, because it's an unusual contrived context.

    Thank you, Sir, you've proved my point. Language covers all situations, even the unusual.

    That doesn't make these perfectly natural examples of communicative English "bad" or "bizarre" sentences. Speech is full of elided ideas that are already known to the parties involved.

    ESLs have to realize this. Conversations, to a stranger, even a native speaker, can be opaque.



    Quote Originally Posted by Raymott View Post
    But don't you know that context is never given in these sorts of tests.
    Have you lost track of the context of the OP? It's a multiple choice non-contextualised sentence from which the best answer has to be chosen.
    So are you claiming that all such tests are invalid?
    No, I didn't say that all such tests are invalid. I pointed out the problem inherent in these tests.

  10. #10
    Raymott's Avatar
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    Re: got & received

    Quote Originally Posted by albeit View Post
    Originally Posted by albeit
    When I got home, I had received a phone call.

    Raymott replied: I'm saying they're wrong, for the reasons I've given.
    Perhaps in Canadian, they are acceptable.

    It has nothing to do with Canadian versus any other dialect of English, Raymott. Those examples are grammatical in every dialect of English, are they not?
    Yes, I'd accept that sentence as grammatical.

    Thank you, Sir, you've proved my point. Language covers all situations, even the unusual.
    Oh, I wouldn't argue with that point at all.

    That doesn't make these perfectly natural examples of communicative English "bad" or "bizarre" sentences. Speech is full of elided ideas that are already known to the parties involved.
    It is, but we don't have any evidence that this is a test of colloquial speech. Generally tests such as this are testing formal grammar. You don't get any marks for pleading elision.


    No, I didn't say that all such tests are invalid. I pointed out the problem inherent in these tests.

    Since you said:
    There are three things that are necessary to make sense of a sentence: context, context and context.
    and since these tests have neither context, context, nor context, I was assuming you would consider them incomprehensible, hence making the test invalid. This seems to follow logically from your statement. Do you want to adjust your position?
    R.

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