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Thread: silent/ly

  1. #11
    Raymott's Avatar
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    Default Re: silent/ly

    Quote Originally Posted by Ann1977 View Post
    But the EATING isn't unwashed and unshaven -- YOU are.
    Actually, no. I meant it to refer to the breakfast. That was the ambiguity.

    The BOUNCING isn't happy -- YOU are.

    The LYING isn't sick -- YOU are.

    Those words are not used as adverbs to modify the verbs; they are ordinary old adjectives modifying "you."

    You can bounce around happily, as happy as a lark.

    You can eat your breakfast informally, unwashed and unshaven.

    You can lie in bed pitifully, sick as a dog.
    I know they're adjectives. Wasn't that the question - whether you had to use an adverb after a verb?
    I take your point about the comma. However, are you claiming that "I lay sick in bed" is ungrammatical?

  2. #12
    albeit is offline Banned
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    Default Re: silent/ly

    Quote Originally Posted by konungursvia View Post
    Sometimes natural languages fail to do their homework and end up not following the rules we make up while observing them. ... Makes you wonder whether "How are you?" "--Good" pre-dates our grammar lessons telling us we should answer "well."
    You've hit the nail on the head. Natural languages make the rules; those rules that are "made up" from inadequate observation, well, those simply aren't rules.

    It's these kinds of grammar lessons that makes one wonder just why grammar was ever taught, Kon.

  3. #13
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    Default Re: silent/ly

    There are some verbs in English which can be followed by adjectives:
    -She sat depressed.
    -Seeing the sight of blood, she fell unconscious on the floor.
    -“A small bird will drop frozen dead from a bough.”

    In the above examples, the adjectives modify the subject.

    However, it’s even possible to describe the object of the verb, using such structures:
    -He zipped it up tight.
    So, tight is not functioning as an adverb here.

    To see how differently they may convey a message, take a look at the following examples:
    -They shot him dead: this sentence implies that they doubtlessly killed him.
    -They shot him deadly: this sentence, however, is ambiguous, because deadly could be taken to mean “severely” or “with the intention of killing”, but it doesn’t necessarily imply that he is dead.

    So, we have to agree with Raymott about the fact that "I lay sick in bed" is grammatical indeed!

  4. #14
    konungursvia's Avatar
    konungursvia is offline Key Member
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    Default Re: silent/ly

    Quote Originally Posted by albeit View Post
    You've hit the nail on the head. Natural languages make the rules; those rules that are "made up" from inadequate observation, well, those simply aren't rules.

    It's these kinds of grammar lessons that makes one wonder just why grammar was ever taught, Kon.
    Maybe, but I find that the teaching of many disciplines is rather more designed to elicit reflection and cognisance. We study math to develop the mind in deductive and geometric thinking, rather than to use the material, for instance. Perhaps grammar can be taught to foster an awareness of linguistic structures, as an end in itself. Fortunately, my most influential English teacher taught in this way. He told us all forms of speech in use are correct in their context, and he was unable to assert that what he was teaching was 'the' correct English. It was just a widely used standard, that is all. I found it perhaps of some value.

  5. #15
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    Default Re: silent/ly

    Quote Originally Posted by GUEST2008 View Post
    Hi

    He sat silent OR silently?

    thanks
    Yes, it's correct. I mean both are correct. It depends on what we think about the verb "sit".

    In this case, we can consider "sit" a linking verb. So to say "he sat slient" is to say "he was silent".

    If we do not consider that "sit" is a linking verb, and some people may care not to, then we should use "silently" because "silent" can't modify an action verb.

    However, "silent" can describe someone's condition, and we can take "sit" to refer to someone's condition, or state of being, not necessarily that one is doing the action of "sitting".

    I don't think that "sit" is used as a linking verb often, but it can be, and it is.

    You'll find "sit" listed as a linking verb at this site: Linking Verbs

    Other common linking verbs: APPEAR, BECOME, FEEL, GET, GROW, SIT, LOOK, PROVE, REMAIN, SEEM, SMELL, SOUND, TASTE, TURN.

    Here's another place to find "sit" listed as a linking verb: Linking Verbs
    __________________________________________

    Linking Verbs

    Linking: He grew silent. = He became silent.
    Last edited by PROESL; 18-Sep-2009 at 05:55.

  6. #16
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    Default Re: silent/ly

    If you are still, then you can sit still.

    Be still. = Sit still. sit - linking verb

    He's sitting at his desk, working hard. - sit - action verb - not a linking verb

  7. #17
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    Default Re: silent/ly

    Quote Originally Posted by chester_100 View Post
    There are some verbs in English which can be followed by adjectives:
    -She sat depressed.
    -Seeing the sight of blood, she fell unconscious on the floor.
    -“A small bird will drop frozen dead from a bough.”

    In the above examples, the adjectives modify the subject.

    However, it’s even possible to describe the object of the verb, using such structures:
    -He zipped it up tight.
    So, tight is not functioning as an adverb here.

    To see how differently they may convey a message, take a look at the following examples:
    -They shot him dead: this sentence implies that they doubtlessly killed him.
    -They shot him deadly: this sentence, however, is ambiguous, because deadly could be taken to mean “severely” or “with the intention of killing”, but it doesn’t necessarily imply that he is dead.

    So, we have to agree with Raymott about the fact that "I lay sick in bed" is grammatical indeed!
    It may be said that these verbs are actually functioning as linking verbs or copula verbs, which is why they can be followed by an adjective.

    Let's look at these sentences:

    She sat depressed. = She was depressed. She stayed depressed.

    Seeing the sight of blood, she fell unconscious on the floor. = She became unconscious.

    A small bird will drop frozen dead from a bough. - A small bird will become lifeless when it falls from a bough.

    He zipped it up tight. = It became tight when he zipped it up.

    They shot him dead. = He became dead when they shot him.

    "I lay sick in bed" = I was sick in bed. I remained sick in bed.

    http://www.answers.com/topic/lie - Coincidence, I'm sure.
    1. To be or remain in a specified condition: The dust has lain undisturbed for years. He lay sick in bed.
    Last edited by PROESL; 18-Sep-2009 at 05:17.

  8. #18
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    Default Re: silent/ly

    Quote Originally Posted by Ann1977 View Post
    You might see

    He sat in the waiting room, still and silent, while the doctors helped his son.

    In this case, "Still and silent" describes HIM, not the sitting.
    Exactly. And if "still" and "silent" describe "him", then in the sentence "he sat still and silent, "still and silent" are adjectives which must make "sit" a linking verb.

    He sat still and silent. He was still and silent. He remained still and silent.


  9. #19
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    Default Re: silent/ly

    Quote Originally Posted by Raymott View Post
    I know they're adjectives. Wasn't that the question - whether you had to use an adverb after a verb?
    I take your point about the comma. However, are you claiming that "I lay sick in bed" is ungrammatical?

    The sentence "I lay sick in bed" is grammatically correct because "lie" is a linking verb, not an action verb. Therefore, an adjective is not modifying a verb here. The adjective is modifying a person.

    I = sick
    I = sick in bed = I was sick in bed.

    Sick is a predicate adjective here. A predicate adjective is sick here.

    A predicate adjective lay sick in bed. A predicate adjective was sick in bed.

  10. #20
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    Default Re: silent/ly

    Quote Originally Posted by Raymott View Post
    No, you can sit silent.
    You can lie sick in bed. You don't have to lie sickly.
    You can bounce around happy as a lark.
    You can eat your breakfast unwashed and unshaven (although this is ambiguous).

    You can bounce around happy as a lark. - I would take this to mean "as happy as a lark". The phrase "as happy as a lark" is prepositional, and I think it's possible to say that this prepositional phrase is adverbial, which makes it so that the phrase can modify "bounce around".

    Another view of "bounce around:

    You are happy as a lark is happy.

    Can "bounce around" be used to refer to a state or a condition?
    You can be happy. You can bounce around happy. You can sit silent. You can bounce around silent. You can exist as a happy one. You can bounce around as a happy. Bouncing around is a kind of existing - existing around.

    You can bounce around as happy as a lark is (happy). We wouldn't want to say "You can bounce around as happily as a lark is (happily).
    You can eat your breakfast unwashed and unshaven (although this is ambiguous). - This is really saying, "You can be - stay or remain -u nwashed and unshaven when you eat your breakfast".

    I might say, though without 100% certainty, that there is an "understood linking verb "be" in this sentence, which describes one's condition or state while eating breakfast.
    Last edited by PROESL; 18-Sep-2009 at 07:24.

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