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Thread: I thought I had

  1. #11
    albeit is offline Banned
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    Default Re: I thought I had

    Quote Originally Posted by konungursvia View Post
    'I thought I replied' is common in speech, so no one can call it wrong. Having said that, when you are attempting to use written English correctly, you must write "I thought I had replied" in this case. The others are not correct in terms of the norms of formal written English. Only in vernacular spoken English.
    Do you really think that this particular collocation is going to make it into FWE, Kon?

    But allowing that it might, by what standard, what reasoning do you say that only the past perfect is "correct"?

    Exact phrase Google Scholar search

    "I thought I replied"
    Results 1 - 10 of about 61.

    "I thought I had replied"
    Results 1 - 2 of 2.

  2. #12
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    Default Re: I thought I had

    Quote Originally Posted by albeit View Post
    Do you really think that this particular collocation is going to make it into FWE, Kon?

    But allowing that it might, by what standard, what reasoning do you say that only the past perfect is "correct"?

    Exact phrase Google Scholar search

    "I thought I replied"
    Results 1 - 10 of about 61.

    "I thought I had replied"
    Results 1 - 2 of 2.
    In my opinion, sometimes teachers "relearn" their first language as a result of teaching it. I would not want someone who has "relearned their language" to help me with my intermediate Spanish and Portuguese and my beginner level French. I want a clear view and understanding of the language I study as native speakers of the language speak it and write it in different situations, and that's what PROESL gives English language learners all the time - real language for real people in real situations.


    In such examples as the one in discussion here, it could be better to speak of register and when the past perfect really becomes necessary to speak of a sequence of events. If the past perfect is not necessary in order to clarify a sequence of events, then just because it can be used to speak of a sequence of events does not mean that it has to be used as such. I've heard students use the past perfect in ways that simply sound stilted or out of place, and, sometimes, theyt simply use it when it's wrong in an attempt to simply use it for the sake of using it or because they think they should.
    Last edited by PROESL; 21-Sep-2009 at 05:30.

  3. #13
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    Default Re: I thought I had

    Quote Originally Posted by PROESL View Post
    What kind of writing are you talking about? When you say writing, do you mean all writing?

    Yes, and some people only know antiquated terms like "pluperfect". And some people know why it's easier to deal with English verbs by speaking of two tenses instead of multiple tenses. These people ought to blessed as well. By the way, in your way of thinking about verbs, how many tenses do you think English has?
    Sir,

    With all due respect,

    This website says pluperfect is a verb tense:
    pluperfect: Definition from Answers.com

    Wikipedia says that are 2 basic tenses and few others complex tenses inclusive of pluperfect and conditional etc. in English:
    Grammatical tense - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    I don't see why konungursvia is wrong.

  4. #14
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    Default Re: I thought I had

    Quote Originally Posted by lycen View Post
    Firstly, I want to say that the "couple a days" was a typo error.

    You said that "past perfect" is not a tense, however, in grammar books there is such a thing as past perfect tense. It is not the simple past tense because it tells you what was already done at a particular time in the past and that is the point of the past perfect tense. I was thinking if the simple past could replace the past perfect tense, we would not need it at all.

    When I googled on "I thought I had replied" and "I thought I replied", the results seems to more common for the former. I think konungursvia could be right, it should be "I thought I had replied" or "I thought I'd replied" which sounds like "I thought I replied". As you have said, the ESL grammar books also teach "I thought I had replied".
    I think he's wrong. I think sometimes some of us teach what's in a book. I teach the language I know, and it's correct language and it's practical teaching - 100% certainty. I understand why I say what I say when I say something is right or wrong. I've explained why both are correct here - simple past and past perfect. And I've explained why it's not absolutely necessary to use the past perfect. I have yet to hear why it should be absolutely necessary to use the past perfect in your example sentence.

    It can be "I thought I had replied", but it doesn't have to be. And as to whether or not it has to be, we would need a context.

    I said the pluperfect is an antiquated term. It seems such terms do better with Latin based languages or Latin itself.

    Just because something is written in one book or a number of books, it does not make opposing views invalid. The past perfect is an aspect of the past tense, and if you ask around, you'll find some others that share this point of view. How many tenses are there? It's impractical to try to teach 10, 12, or 14 different tenses and teach exactly when and how each one is used. Viewing English as a two-tense system is more practical and easier on learners.

    If you're writing or studying and you don't know which form of the verb to use, then think about this:

    1. Is it past or present?
    2. Is it ongoing? Is it progressive in any way?
    3. If it's ongoing, is the progressive form of the verb required? Or can the verb itself convey something that is continual or progressive?
    3. Is the action something that is a "universal truth" of some sort? In other words, if it's present, should it be simple present?
    4. If the action occurred in the past, is it at all relevant now in any way? Will it continue now or into the future.

    And so on.

    Knowing first whether something is present or past helps in learning which verb form to use instead of attempting to deduce which tense to use out of a number of tenses from which to choose.
    Last edited by PROESL; 21-Sep-2009 at 04:52.

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    Default Re: I thought I had

    Quote Originally Posted by lycen View Post
    [/B]

    Sir,

    With all due respect,

    This website says pluperfect is a verb tense: pluperfect: Definition from Answers.com

    Wikipedia says that are 2 basic tenses and few others complex tenses inclusive of pluperfect and conditional etc. in English.
    Grammatical tense - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    I don't see whykonungursvia is wrong.
    I didn't say pluperfect was not a tense. I said the term "pluperfect" is antiquated.

    Some people take the view that English has two tenses. I am well aware of the terminology that ESL and EFL books use.

  6. #16
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    Default Re: I thought I had

    Quote Originally Posted by lycen View Post
    Firstly, I want to say that the "couple a days" was a typo error. .
    Firstly, I never said that it was not a typo. Secondly, I merely stated that I had overlooked the error in my reply to you. Thirdly, another post brought it to my attention. Fourthly, I wanted to acknowledge that it was an oversight on my part, not something I understood to be correct. Fifthly, another poster corrected it before I did.

    I'll back as soon as I've got sixthly and seventhly.


  7. #17
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    Default Re: I thought I had

    Quote Originally Posted by PROESL View Post
    Firstly, I never said that it was not a typo. Secondly, I merely stated that I had overlooked the error in my reply to you. Thirdly, another post brought it to my attention. Fourthly, I wanted to acknowledge that it was an oversight on my part, not something I understood to be correct. Fifthly, another poster corrected it before I did.

    I'll back as soon as I've got sixthly and seventhly.

    You know, this typo has only been discussed around a dozen times. I think we need far more explication about what really happened here!

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    Default Re: I thought I had

    I'll back as soon as I've got sixthly and seventhly.
    Presently, I haven't got a sixthly and a seventhly, which is obviously no big deal. Lastly, I would like to say that there will not be a sixthly or seventhly. And I must say that this suits me perfectly.


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    Default Re: I thought I had

    Quote Originally Posted by Raymott View Post
    You know, this typo has only been discussed around a dozen times. I think we need far more explication about what really happened here!
    Let's put it under a microscope and dissect it. That's the best thing I could find for something that's sharp. Hopefully, it'll work.

  10. #20
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    Default Re: I thought I had

    Quote Originally Posted by lycen View Post
    Sir,

    With all due respect,

    This website says pluperfect is a verb tense:
    pluperfect: Definition from Answers.com

    Wikipedia says that are 2 basic tenses and few others complex tenses inclusive of pluperfect and conditional etc. in English:
    Grammatical tense - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    I don't see why konungursvia is wrong.
    Well, it seems that the discussion has taken an interesting path, yes it does, yes it does. And since it has, we could also say that English verbs do not have conjugations. Spanish, Portuguese, and French verbs do have conjugations, but English verbs do not.

    By the way, please, if you could, hold off on the due respect. I have more respect than I know what to do with now and it's taking up too much space.

    Thanks.
    Last edited by PROESL; 21-Sep-2009 at 04:39.

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