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  1. #21
    bhaisahab's Avatar
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    Default Re: use of 'already'

    Quote Originally Posted by albeit View Post
    I wonder why, Bhaisahab, you wouldn't have also included meanings 1 & 2 from the OED.



    [emphasis is mine]

    It doesn't appear to me to be particularly sound thinking to suggest that a different meaning [#2] affects how we normally place adverbs.



    [emphasis is mine]
    Do you have the OED in book form, or are you relying on the abridged online version?

  2. #22
    albeit is offline Banned
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    Default Re: use of 'already'

    Quote Originally Posted by bhaisahab View Post
    Do you have the OED in book form, or are you relying on the abridged online version?
    Would it matter, Bahaisahab, and if so, how?

  3. #23
    bhaisahab's Avatar
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    Default Re: use of 'already'

    Quote Originally Posted by albeit View Post
    Would it matter, Bahaisahab, and if so, how?
    Just that compared with the book, the online version is disappointingly incomplete. (I think they want to sell books).

  4. #24
    albeit is offline Banned
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    Default Re: use of 'already'

    Quote Originally Posted by bhaisahab View Post
    Just that compared with the book, the online version is disappointingly incomplete. (I think they want to sell books).
    It's complete enough to know that 'already' holds the meaning, "as surprisingly soon or early as this" for both BrE and NaE and it therefore must be a collocation that is used, correctly, by speakers of BrE.

    Putting 'already' in the normal neutral position just won't give that nuance/meaning so it's incontrovertible that,

    "I have done that already!"

    is a collocation that is grammatically and semantically appropriate for BrE.

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    Default Re: use of 'already'

    Quote Originally Posted by albeit View Post
    It's complete enough to know that 'already' holds the meaning, "as surprisingly soon or early as this" for both BrE and NaE and it therefore must be a collocation that is used, correctly, by speakers of BrE.

    Putting 'already' in the normal neutral position just won't give that nuance/meaning so it's incontrovertible that,

    "I have done that already!"

    is a collocation that is grammatically and semantically appropriate for BrE.
    I agree, alb. The sentence "I have done that already" is absolutely 100% correct. It's unimaginable, as I see it, to tell English language learners that it's wrong, and they should not say it. I would not even call it colloquial. It's simply correct.

    However, this does not have to do with collocation. This topic is adverb placement.


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    Default Re: use of 'already'

    Quote Originally Posted by hznaeem View Post
    which one can be more correct or any of them is incorrect?
    "i have done it already" or "i have already done it"

    or "i finished my work already" or "i already finished my work"

    views welcome. Thanks.
    All of them are correct. The primary placement of the adverb "already" is after the auxiliary "have". Using "already" at the end of the sentence is also correct, but would be heard as something that is used less frequently. Both are correct.

    The same goes for "I already finished my work", and "I finished my work already". The primary placement for "already" is after the subject. A secondary placement would be at the end of a clause or sentence. Both are correct.

  7. #27
    albeit is offline Banned
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    Default Re: use of 'already'

    Quote Originally Posted by PROESL View Post
    However, this does not have to do with collocation. This topic is adverb placement.
    How adverbs are placed is exactly the same as what the adverbs are collocated with.

    Quote Originally Posted by philo2009 View Post

    2. Re. tense collocation: the first two are standard in BrE, where even in informal use 'already' rarely modifies preterite verb phrases. In AmE, on the other hand, while 'already' with the present perfect will often be encountered in careful, especially academic, use, the occurrence of the preterite with adverbs such as 'already' and 'yet' is considerably more common in everyday speech.

    Adverb collocation
    ... Unit 04, Unit 05, Unit 06, Unit 07, Unit 08, Unit 09, Unit 10, Unit 11, Unit 12. and. Choose . . . →. Adverb collocation. Choose the correct answers. ...
    http://www.oup.com/elt/global/produc..._adv_unit03_2/ - Cached - Similar

    =======================


    You're awfully selective, Pro. Any ulterior motives?

  8. #28
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    Default Re: use of 'already'

    Quote Originally Posted by PROESL View Post
    I would not even call it colloquial. It's simply correct.
    You can call it colloquial if you like because that wouldn't in any way make it incorrect.

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    Default Re: use of 'already'

    Quote Originally Posted by albeit View Post
    How adverbs are placed is exactly the same as what the adverbs are collocated with.




    Adverb collocation
    ... Unit 04, Unit 05, Unit 06, Unit 07, Unit 08, Unit 09, Unit 10, Unit 11, Unit 12. and. Choose . . . →. Adverb collocation. Choose the correct answers. ...
    www.oup.com/elt/global/products/.../hwy_adv_unit03_2/ - Cached - Similar

    =======================


    You're awfully selective, Pro. Any ulterior motives?
    Ulterior motives? No, adverb placement is where the adverb or adverbial goes in a sentence. This is part of the topic of word order. Collocation deals with how words typically and often combine with one another, or one could say how words go together. A collocation could be two words, a phrase, a fixed expression, or a semi-fixed expression. Other words related to collocation are "lexical phrase", "mult-word expression", and "chunk". I don't use "chunk". It sounds like food or something. I don't know who thought of using "chunk", but it's not a word I use in the context of vocabulary. One might inclined to add idiomatic expressions to the list, but on the other hand, it could be that idiomatic expression are simply best thought of as idiomatic expressions.

    Perhaps my list is a bit too broad for the word collocation, but to me it's all related. Here's something more narrow, which I find to be a good and logical explanation for "collocation". ESL Glossary: Definitions of common ESL/EFL terms: Collocates

  10. #30
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    Default Re: use of 'already'

    Quote Originally Posted by albeit View Post
    It's complete enough to know that 'already' holds the meaning, "as surprisingly soon or early as this" for both BrE and NaE and it therefore must be a collocation that is used, correctly, by speakers of BrE.

    Putting 'already' in the normal neutral position just won't give that nuance/meaning so it's incontrovertible that,

    "I have done that already!"

    is a collocation that is grammatically and semantically appropriate for BrE.
    I think that one of the interesting points there was that AmE, after the New York Jewish population, has begun to use already with infinitive sentences, placed at their end:

    Get real, already.

    I think it's accurate to say that has permeated our English much more than BrE.

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