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  1. #1
    vcolts is offline Member
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    Article question

    Sentence:

    1.

    a. The German sports car and the German airplane are made by the same company.

    vs.

    b. The German sports car and airplane are made by the same company.

    Since the two are seperate entities, A is the correct one, right?


    2.

    a. The man and woman decided not to see each other.

    vs.

    b. The man and the woman decided not to see each other.

    The first one is wrong because the two are not in a group, right?
    Last edited by vcolts; 26-Nov-2009 at 20:58.

  2. #2
    2006 is offline Banned
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    Re: Article question

    Quote Originally Posted by vcolts View Post
    Sentence:

    1.

    a. The German sports car and the German airplane are made by the same company.

    vs.

    b. The German sports car and airplane are made by the same company.

    Since the two are separate entities, A is the correct one, right?
    Both can be okay. "separate entities" is not necessarily important; you have to consider the context.
    It depends on how many sports cars and airplanes you are talking about.

    2.

    a. The man and woman decided not to see each other.

    vs.

    b. The man and the woman decided not to see each other.
    Both are correct. There is only one man and one woman; you don't need the second "the".
    The first one is wrong because the two are not in a group, right? What do you mean by not "in a group"? You are talking about both of them.
    2006

  3. #3
    ilovepsycho's Avatar
    ilovepsycho is offline Junior Member
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    Re: Article question

    It depends on how many sports cars and airplanes you are talking about.
    How does it depend on that? Would you show me further explanations and examples?


    a. The German sports car and the German airplane are made by the same company.

    vs.

    b. The German sports car and airplane are made by the same company.
    P.S. the difference of the above sentences is what? Don't they absolutely the same, do they?

  4. #4
    vcolts is offline Member
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    Re: Article question

    Quote Originally Posted by 2006 View Post
    2006
    Erm, what do you mean by how many???

    The sentence has two singular nouns: One specific German sports car and one specific German airplane. I didn't use plurals in the sentence.

    I mean that not in a group means that the two individuals are not under the same category.

    "The man and woman" would mean like/considered just like the word "people" under the same company or the same group? Whereas "the man and the woman" are two seperate specific individuals/entities who may not fall under one group?

  5. #5
    ilovepsycho's Avatar
    ilovepsycho is offline Junior Member
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    Re: Article question

    Quote Originally Posted by vcolts View Post
    Erm, what do you mean by how many???

    The sentence has two singular nouns: One specific German sports car and one specific German airplane. I didn't use plurals in the sentence.

    I mean that not in a group means that the two individuals are not under the same category.

    "The man and woman" would mean like/considered just like the word "people" under the same company or the same group? Whereas "the man and the woman" are two seperate specific individuals/entities who may not fall under one group?
    I also wonder that so much.

  6. #6
    2006 is offline Banned
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    Re: Article question

    [QUOTE=vcolts;538916]Erm, what do you mean by how many???

    The sentence has two singular nouns: One specific German sports car and one specific German airplane. I didn't use plurals in the sentence.

    I know you didn't use plurals! The point is that that sentence didn't just come out of the blue; there has to be some context associated with that sentence.
    If the only things you are talking about are one German sports car and one German airplane, you could use b. You could even just say 'The sportscar and airplane.........'.
    But if the conversation is about several sports cars, one of which is German, and several airplanes, one of which is German, a. would be better and I would use a.



    I mean that not in a group means that the two individuals are not under the same category.

    "The man and woman" would mean like/considered just like the word "people" under the same company or the same group? Whereas "the man and the woman" are two seperate specific individuals/entities who may not fall under one group?
    Either way they are two specific individuals. You are talking about 'The man and (the) woman.', not 'A man and woman'.
    "group" is not relevant here.

    2006
    [/QUO
    TE]

  7. #7
    ilovepsycho's Avatar
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    Re: Article question

    If the only things you are talking about are one German sports car and one German airplane, you could use b. You could even just say 'The sportscar and airplane.........'.
    But if the conversation is about several sports cars, one of which is German, and several airplanes, one of which is German, a. would be better and I would use a.

    Your explanation is very interesting, for an article 'the' can influence the underlying meaning so much. I don't fully understand your one, but it's absolutely clear that that evokes many foreign students' interest.

  8. #8
    vcolts is offline Member
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    Re: Article question

    [QUOTE=2006;538961]
    Quote Originally Posted by vcolts View Post
    Erm, what do you mean by how many???

    The sentence has two singular nouns: One specific German sports car and one specific German airplane. I didn't use plurals in the sentence.

    I know you didn't use plurals! The point is that that sentence didn't just come out of the blue; there has to be some context associated with that sentence.
    If the only things you are talking about are one German sports car and one German airplane, you could use b. You could even just say 'The sportscar and airplane.........'.
    But if the conversation is about several sports cars, one of which is German, and several airplanes, one of which is German, a. would be better and I would use a.



    I mean that not in a group means that the two individuals are not under the same category.

    "The man and woman" would mean like/considered just like the word "people" under the same company or the same group? Whereas "the man and the woman" are two seperate specific individuals/entities who may not fall under one group?
    Either way they are two specific individuals. You are talking about 'The man and (the) woman.', not 'A man and woman'.
    "group" is not relevant here.

    2006
    [/QUOTE]
    Thanks for answering.

    However, I still don't clearly understand or agree with your explainations though.

    Even though the airplane and the car may be the only things being discussed, isn't it automatically assumed that there are other cars and airplanes in existence in the world without having to discuss them?

    If I understand correctly, you saying that the article can be omited if the two things are the only things being discussed, right?


    I searched the net about omitting articles in different situations but came up empty. I am either forgetting the rules on that or never really learned it properly. Do you know any website that may be helpful for learning the rules for omitting articles?

    Btw, I am concerned with my essay grammar.

    Thanks in advance.

  9. #9
    ilovepsycho's Avatar
    ilovepsycho is offline Junior Member
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    Re: Article question

    Even though the airplane and the car may be the only things being discussed, isn't it automatically assumed that there are other cars and airplanes in existence in the world without having to discuss them?
    There are many cars and many airplanes in the world, and why is this your problem? The definer "the" is literally a "definer", which defines an object as an specific object. The car and the airplane mentioned mean the specific car and airplane of many other cars and airplanes in the world.

    As a foreign, or Asian, student learning English, I want to say to you "Please, don't believe absolutely your grammar books written in Asian language and by a non-native teacher." In fact, I've found many grammar books teaching somewhat incorrect grammars compared with American or British grammar ones.

  10. #10
    vcolts is offline Member
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    Re: Article question

    Erm, Ilovepsycho, you are not making any sense or helping. I don't think you understood me correctly.

    I specifically used the article to indicate two specific, unique objects. I am trying to figure out/learn when to omit the article and what the difference is in meaning.

    You have it backwards, so please stop posting on this thread.


    To anybody who can clarify this:

    I would like to know when the article can be skipped. Ex. "The man and woman" as opposed to "The man and the woman".

    I thought that in order to designate properly/define the noun properly, "the" is necessary unless the nouns belong in an absolute group (ex. a company, a group). I always thought that way.

    Same for "A man and a woman" vs " A man and woman". What's the rule on omitting the article in these cases? Are there any difference in context or usage?
    Last edited by vcolts; 29-Nov-2009 at 08:54.

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