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Thread: diagramming


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    #1

    diagramming

    Do not forget that the newlyweds, to whom you gave your money many years ago, have no insurance.


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    #2

    Re: diagramming


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    #3

    Re: diagramming

    Quote Originally Posted by Kondorosi View Post
    May I make a humble suggestion? You say that "many" modifies "years" that modifies "ago" that modifies "money." Would you be open to this interpretation: "years" modifies "gave" (the books call "year" in this case a so-called "adverbial objective"); both "many" and "ago" modify "years." Surely, we are talking about when you gave the money, not about the object itself. In other words, you gave (to the extent of) many years ago the money.


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    #4

    Re: diagramming

    Quote Originally Posted by TheParser View Post
    May I make a humble suggestion? You say that "many" modifies "years" that modifies "ago" that modifies "money." Would you be open to this interpretation: "years" modifies "gave" (the books call "year" in this case a so-called "adverbial objective"); both "many" and "ago" modify "years." Surely, we are talking about when you gave the money, not about the object itself. In other words, you gave (to the extent of) many years ago the money.
    Hello Parser,

    Yes, of course, the adverbial phrase 'many years ago' modifies the verb. Adverbs never modify nouns. I did not give my diagram due care.

    This is how I see the adverb phrase:

    [many [years]] ago;
    'many years' is an adverbial objective, a NP functioning as an adverb (modifies 'ago')

    How would you diagram this sentence:

    'You are right, aren't you?'?

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    #5

    Re: diagramming

    I think you did a very good job Konderosi.
    I DO think Parser is right about the placement of "many years ago" under "gave" as opposed to "money"
    An "x" could have been placed on the sloping line for an understood "by" i.e. "ago by many years"
    Nice job!
    Linguist Farmer

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    #6

    Re: diagramming

    At some point I learned to call little clauses like "...aren't you?" as "tag questions". I think they work syntactically as little tiny sentences in their own right -- even though they are not standardly punctuated like them.

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    #7

    Re: diagramming

    Quote Originally Posted by Kondorosi View Post
    Hello Parser,

    Yes, of course, the adverbial phrase 'many years ago' modifies the verb. Adverbs never modify nouns. I did not give my diagram due care.

    This is how I see the adverb phrase:

    [many [years]] ago;
    'many years' is an adverbial objective, a NP functioning as an adverb (modifies 'ago')

    How would you diagram this sentence:

    'You are right, aren't you?'?
    It's great having such an interesting conversation about Reed-Kellogg. I have noticed that the "experts" in various books don't agree about the status of "ago." There are all kinds of theories. But I have simply decided to go with one book's idea: It's an adjective in "five days ago," and it's an adverb in "It happened long ago." Thus, I respectfully differ from your interpretion that "ago" is an adverb that modifies "gave." I prefer to consider it as as adjective modifying "years." ("ago" comes from the old word "agone.") I feel that "years" (adverbial objective) modifies "gave." Many good teachers remind us that even the "experts" don't agree on how to parse a sentence. Many times, there is an honest difference of opinion. That's why parsing a sentence is so much fun. A million thanks for all the help you have given me.


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    #8

    Re: diagramming

    Quote Originally Posted by TheParser View Post
    It's great having such an interesting conversation about Reed-Kellogg.
    Some might think we should get a life.

    Quote Originally Posted by TheParser View Post
    I have noticed that the "experts" in various books don't agree about the status of "ago." There are all kinds of theories.
    Maybe I should give the (postpositive) adjectival interpretation of 'ago' a little bit more thought.

    Quote Originally Posted by TheParser View Post
    But I have simply decided to go with one book's idea: It's an adjective in "five days ago," and it's an adverb in "It happened long ago."
    Exactly. I was thinking the same thing. Hands on heart I did not read this part when I made my previous comment.

    Quote Originally Posted by TheParser View Post
    Thus, I respectfully differ from your interpretion that "ago" is an adverb that modifies "gave." I prefer to consider it as as adjective modifying "years." ("ago" comes from the old word "agone.")
    Fair enough.

    Quote Originally Posted by TheParser View Post
    I feel that "years" (adverbial objective) modifies "gave."
    'years' is the head of the noun phrase (form) and the NP functions as an adverb.


    Quote Originally Posted by TheParser View Post
    Many good teachers remind us that even the "experts" don't agree on how to parse a sentence. Many times, there is an honest difference of opinion. That's why parsing a sentence is so much fun.
    I did not have English classes in school or elsewhere. Never.

    Quote Originally Posted by TheParser View Post
    A million thanks for all the help you have given me.
    Have I?

    Biber says tag clauses (they are finite sub-clauses) are a type of peripheral clause; they are loosely attached to the end (sometimes the middle) of another clause. They include question tags and declarative tags. They have the effect of reinforcing the speaker's commitment to the proposition in the main clause.

    Frank, do you like this?


    Diagram this:

    They said, 'Yes sir,' and saluted.
    Last edited by Kondorosi; 15-Dec-2009 at 14:33.

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    #9

    Re: diagramming

    "They said and saluted." "Yes, sir" is the direct object of the first verb in the compound simple predicate. That direct object is made up of an interjection and a noun of direct address.
    I would love to diagram it, but I don't know how to do it online. I must learn.
    Do you think it would be possible to scan a hand-drawn diagram and then post it here? That is what I would really like to do.
    Linguist Farmer

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    #10

    Re: diagramming

    Today I am not in school. The Farmer part of Linguist Farmer fell off a barn roof a few weeks ago, and I am missing some days from school. Therefore, the images are not blocked for me, and I can see them.
    Linguist Farmer-with-a-fractured-hip

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