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  1. #11
    Frank Antonson's Avatar
    Frank Antonson is offline Senior Member
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    Default Re: Please analyze "found shot dead"

    Yes, it is fun!
    Maybe Kondorosi could coach you, as he did me, to be able to diagram online and post here.
    I know what you mean about "how shot?" -- "dead shot"
    I meant to say that "dead" can, in fact, serve to modify an adjective.
    I still feel that, although there could be other interpretations, "Shot" is the predicate adjective modifying "he" and "dead" is the the predicate adjective (following "shot" and also modifying "he".
    How about this? What if the sentence had been "He was found shot and dead"?
    Linguist Farmer

  2. #12
    TheParser is offline Key Member
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    Default Re: Please analyze "found shot dead"

    Quote Originally Posted by Frank Antonson View Post
    Yes, it is fun!
    Maybe Kondorosi could coach you, as he did me, to be able to diagram online and post here.
    I know what you mean about "how shot?" -- "dead shot"
    I meant to say that "dead" can, in fact, serve to modify an adjective.
    I still feel that, although there could be other interpretations, "Shot" is the predicate adjective modifying "he" and "dead" is the the predicate adjective (following "shot" and also modifying "he".
    How about this? What if the sentence had been "He was found shot and dead"?
    Linguist Farmer
    ***NOT A TEACHER***Excellent point. In "He was found shot.," "shot" is certainly a participle acting as a subjective complement. But in our sentence, the meaning is closer to: He (who had been shot dead) was found. Surely "had been shot" is a verb phrase acting as the linking verb. You notice that "dead" refers to "who" which refers to ""He." The idea that "dead" modifies "shot" just sticks in my craw. In other words, it seems too simple an answer to be true. They shot him dead/ He was shot dead = in both sentences, we all agree that "dead" modifies "him" or "He." But the problem comes with those words "was found" which is the passive of "found." Please let me know if you and Kondorosi come up with more insight. (I get the feeling we are the only three people on Earth who care about this!)

  3. #13
    Frank Antonson's Avatar
    Frank Antonson is offline Senior Member
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    Default Re: Please analyze "found shot dead"

    I think I wrote you a reply and forgot to post it.
    The gist was:
    What if the sentence were: "He was found shot and dead".
    Then it would be more clear that both "shot" and "dead" are predicate adjectives. I know that this is different. He was shot (and caused to be) dead. Still, the first example clarifies the modification I think.
    This time I am going to remember to submit this.

  4. #14
    Kondorosi is offline Banned
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    Default Re: Please analyze "found shot dead"

    Quote Originally Posted by Kondorosi View Post
    My interpretation:
    He was found shot.
    He was found shot dead (= to death).

    Compare the two sentences. What is the difference? The difference is what 'dead' does. It describes the severity of his injuries.

    He was found shot severely.
    He was found shot dead (= to death).

    ---------------

    Who likes this?



    Last edited by Kondorosi; 30-Dec-2009 at 06:18.

  5. #15
    TheParser is offline Key Member
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    Default Re: Please analyze "found shot dead"

    Quote Originally Posted by Kondorosi View Post
    He was found shot.
    He was found shot dead (= to death).

    Compare the two sentences. What is the difference? The difference is what 'dead' does. It describes the severity of his injuries.

    He was found shot severely.
    He was found shot dead (= to death).

    ---------------

    Who likes this?



    ***NOT A TEACHER***Yes!YES! This works for me. It clearly shows that "dead" is an adjective that refers to "He" (or to an underlying "him"). THANK YOU to you two gentlemen for helping me. You have proved/proven that diagramming is essential for anyone who truly wants to better understand English.

  6. #16
    Frank Antonson's Avatar
    Frank Antonson is offline Senior Member
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    Default Re: Please analyze "found shot dead"

    I like it.
    It seems complicated, but all of that may well be underlying the little sentence.

  7. #17
    Tdol is offline Editor, UsingEnglish.com
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    Default Re: Please analyze "found shot dead"

    Quote Originally Posted by TheParser View Post
    ***NOT A TEACHER*** Excellent point, Linguist Farmer. But in that sense, "dead" = completely (He is completely right). But surely "He was shot dead" does not mean "He was completely shot." As you said in another post, this IS fun!
    I can see the temptation of thinking of it as an adverb, but it is not easy to argue that it shows the manner of the shooting or the completeness. I'd go for a resultative adjective here, which is a bit of a halfway house for adjectives that want to be adverbs. The core of it is, I think, 'someone shot him dead'- it's just been put into the passive and we may never know who pulled the trigger.

  8. #18
    TheParser is offline Key Member
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    Default Re: Please analyze "found shot dead"

    Quote Originally Posted by Tdol View Post
    I can see the temptation of thinking of it as an adverb, but it is not easy to argue that it shows the manner of the shooting or the completeness. I'd go for a resultative adjective here, which is a bit of a halfway house for adjectives that want to be adverbs. The core of it is, I think, 'someone shot him dead'- it's just been put into the passive and we may never know who pulled the trigger.
    ***NOT A TEACHER*** Thank you. I shall do some research on resultative adjectives.

  9. #19
    Kondorosi is offline Banned
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    Default Re: Please analyze "found shot dead"

    Quote Originally Posted by TheParser View Post
    ***NOT A TEACHER*** Thank you. I shall do some research on resultative adjectives.
    Adjectival objective complement, same thing. (almost)
    Last edited by Kondorosi; 30-Dec-2009 at 16:18.

  10. #20
    Kondorosi is offline Banned
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    Default Re: Please analyze "found shot dead"

    Quote Originally Posted by Tdol View Post
    it is not easy to argue that it shows the manner of the shooting or the completeness.
    result, outcome

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