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  1. #1
    yousef shaheen is offline Newbie
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    the usage of For+ Reflexive pronoun compared with by+ Reflexive pronoun.

    Please look at these sentences
    You don't need to explain. I can seefor myselfwhat is happening
    You don't need to explain what I did to everyone. I can speakfor myself
    They are at college now, so they have to organize thingsfor themselves.
    I will tell you the answer this time, but in future you must learn to thinkfor yourself
    if we replace for + reflexive in these sentences with By+ Reflexive and translate them into Arabic Language , we don't find any difference in meaning.
    for + reflexive indicates "independence" while by+ reflexive means "alone"...OK, BUT why do we use for+ reflexive in these sentences? is that because these sentences includes phrases like (can see) or words like (think)? in other words, do these words and phrases have anything to do with choosing "for + reflexive " and not by+ reflexive.
    thanks a lot
    Yousef M. Shaheen

  2. #2
    kfredson is offline Senior Member
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    Re: the usage of For+ Reflexive pronoun compared with by+ Reflexive pronoun.

    Quote Originally Posted by yousef shaheen View Post
    Please look at these sentences
    You don't need to explain. I can seefor myselfwhat is happening
    You don't need to explain what I did to everyone. I can speakfor myself
    They are at college now, so they have to organize thingsfor themselves.
    I will tell you the answer this time, but in future you must learn to thinkfor yourself
    if we replace for + reflexive in these sentences with By+ Reflexive and translate them into Arabic Language , we don't find any difference in meaning.
    for + reflexive indicates "independence" while by+ reflexive means "alone"...OK, BUT why do we use for+ reflexive in these sentences? is that because these sentences includes phrases like (can see) or words like (think)? in other words, do these words and phrases have anything to do with choosing "for + reflexive " and not by+ reflexive.
    thanks a lot
    Yousef M. Shaheen
    I have no idea what rules are in effect here. "For" is correct in each of these sentences. In the third one you could, in fact, replace "for" by "by."

  3. #3
    sarat_106 is offline Key Member
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    Exclamation Re: the usage of For+ Reflexive pronoun compared with by+ Reflexive pronoun.

    Quote Originally Posted by yousef shaheen View Post
    Please look at these sentences


    You don't need to explain. I can seefor myselfwhat is happening
    You don't need to explain what I did to everyone. I can speakfor myself
    They are at college now, so they have to organize thingsfor themselves.
    I will tell you the answer this time, but in future you must learn to thinkfor yourself
    if we replace for + reflexive in these sentences with By+ Reflexive and translate them into Arabic Language , we don't find any difference in meaning.
    for + reflexive indicates "independence" while by+ reflexive means "alone"...OK, BUT why do we use for+ reflexive in these sentences? is that because these sentences includes phrases like (can see) or words like (think)? in other words, do these words and phrases have anything to do with choosing "for + reflexive " and not by+ reflexive.
    thanks a lot

    Yousef M. Shaheen
    Reflexive pronouns are used when the subject and object are the same, in other words the reflexive pronouns indicate that the sentence subject also receives the action of the verb.
    I myself can see what is happening. Or I can see myself what is happening. ( In the first sentence it is used as an intensive pronoun to emphasize the subject and in the 2nd, the object reflects to the subject. So here, use of a preposition is optional.
    When do you use a reflexive pronoun as object of a preposition? when the subject and the prepositional object are the same.. “For” is used to indicate the recipient or beneficiary of an action and with a reflexive pronoun, the beneficiary is also the subject. Look at the sentence:
    I bought a car for me. Or I bought a car for myself.
    So when there is no beneficiary of an action use ‘by’ to reflect to the subject.
    I can do it myself. Or I can do it by myself. (No one else need help me. Use of preposition ‘by’ is optional)

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