Page 2 of 3 FirstFirst 1 2 3 LastLast
Results 11 to 20 of 24
  1. #11
    Kondorosi is offline Banned
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Posts
    966
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Diagramming Shakespeare 11

    Quote Originally Posted by Frank Antonson View Post
    Will you" and "nill you" are definitely two separate subordinate clauses.
    That is what I was thinking from the word go.


    Quote Originally Posted by Frank Antonson View Post
    If you make the understood words to be "(If) Will you (it) (or) (if) nill you (it), the sentence is easy to diagram -- with compound adverbial clauses joined on a dashed line by "or". You could even consider the two clauses to be appositive noun clauses embedded in prepositional phrases -- "in the case (or condition) that you will it or in the case (or condition) that you nill it".

    But, the last is pretty awkward.
    Agreed.

    Quote Originally Posted by Frank Antonson View Post
    In any case, the original 8 words are perfectly understandable to a native English speaker and, so, should be diagrammable.
    Will you, nill you -- the difficulty also lies in the reversed order of subject and verb. 'whether' is usually not followed by a reversed order, thus it can't be taken as an understood word in the sentence.

  2. #12
    Frank Antonson's Avatar
    Frank Antonson is offline Senior Member
    • Member Info
      • Member Type:
      • English Teacher
      • Native Language:
      • English
      • Home Country:
      • United States
      • Current Location:
      • United States
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Posts
    1,151
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Diagramming Shakespeare 11

    Maybe not an understood word, but I think the idea of it is implied -- possibly by the reversed order.
    I will wrack my brain for comparable examples.
    Let's see, "You will, you nill, I will marry you" -- not quite the same. Reversed subject/predicate order in English suggests a question. Maybe that is how the "conditionality" of "if" or "whether" is arrived at.

  3. #13
    Kondorosi is offline Banned
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Posts
    966
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Diagramming Shakespeare 11

    Quote Originally Posted by Frank Antonson View Post
    Maybe not an understood word, but I think the idea of it is implied -- possibly by the reversed order.
    I will wrack my brain for comparable examples.
    Let's see, "You will, you nill, I will marry you" -- not quite the same. Reversed subject/predicate order in English suggests a question. Maybe that is how the "conditionality" of "if" or "whether" is arrived at.
    I am at the end of my tether.

  4. #14
    Frank Antonson's Avatar
    Frank Antonson is offline Senior Member
    • Member Info
      • Member Type:
      • English Teacher
      • Native Language:
      • English
      • Home Country:
      • United States
      • Current Location:
      • United States
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Posts
    1,151
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Diagramming Shakespeare 11


  5. #15
    Frank Antonson's Avatar
    Frank Antonson is offline Senior Member
    • Member Info
      • Member Type:
      • English Teacher
      • Native Language:
      • English
      • Home Country:
      • United States
      • Current Location:
      • United States
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Posts
    1,151
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Diagramming Shakespeare 11

    "if" "or" "if" , and two "it"s are understood.
    How about that?

  6. #16
    Kondorosi is offline Banned
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Posts
    966
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Diagramming Shakespeare 11



    I like it better.
    Last edited by Kondorosi; 17-Jan-2010 at 13:45.

  7. #17
    Frank Antonson's Avatar
    Frank Antonson is offline Senior Member
    • Member Info
      • Member Type:
      • English Teacher
      • Native Language:
      • English
      • Home Country:
      • United States
      • Current Location:
      • United States
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Posts
    1,151
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Diagramming Shakespeare 11

    The trouble is that the compound subject should be able to have an understood conjunction placed within it. I guess we will just differ on this one. I say that there are two separate predications there.

  8. #18
    Kondorosi is offline Banned
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Posts
    966
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Diagramming Shakespeare 11

    I meant this, sorry:


  9. #19
    Frank Antonson's Avatar
    Frank Antonson is offline Senior Member
    • Member Info
      • Member Type:
      • English Teacher
      • Native Language:
      • English
      • Home Country:
      • United States
      • Current Location:
      • United States
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Posts
    1,151
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Diagramming Shakespeare 11

    Oh, I see what you are doing. You are joining the base lines to accept the conjunction and then splitting them again.

    Well, I think it is awkward and I have not ever seen it done (no reason to not be the first).

  10. #20
    Kondorosi is offline Banned
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Posts
    966
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Diagramming Shakespeare 11

    Quote Originally Posted by Frank Antonson View Post
    Finally Gene replied!
    He liked your diagram more and continued to say that you should drop the two X's: both will and nill can be used intransitively.

Page 2 of 3 FirstFirst 1 2 3 LastLast

Similar Threads

  1. Diagramming Shakespeare 10
    By Frank Antonson in forum Analysing and Diagramming Sentences
    Replies: 6
    Last Post: 13-Jan-2010, 12:27
  2. Diagramming Shakespeare 6
    By Frank Antonson in forum Analysing and Diagramming Sentences
    Replies: 3
    Last Post: 30-Dec-2009, 12:18
  3. Diagramming Shakespeare 3
    By Frank Antonson in forum Analysing and Diagramming Sentences
    Replies: 6
    Last Post: 22-Dec-2009, 15:40
  4. Diagramming Shakespeare 2
    By Frank Antonson in forum Analysing and Diagramming Sentences
    Replies: 8
    Last Post: 21-Dec-2009, 18:33
  5. Diagramming Shakespeare
    By Frank Antonson in forum Analysing and Diagramming Sentences
    Replies: 39
    Last Post: 19-Dec-2009, 21:07

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •